Just seen Billie Eilish report on news. What a load of bollocks...

[ssd]

Honestly it must he a total head nip being young these days. 19 yr olds telling us not to body shame then appearing in vogue in a corset. But said 19 yr old being an expert in telling us how to feel, and of course that stupid trendy word 'empowerment ' used as much as possible. Maybe it was the same in my day, but then social media wasnt about to give eedgits a platform to be an expert on everything. Pop stars always got too much attention, but now with sm it must be increased tenfold.
Thank fuck I'm old and middle aged.

Maybe young talented performers were always screwed over by management or marketing. Very few seem to stick to their guns.

The thing is, how do you really know what their guns actually are or were? She's very young. Teenagers tend to change their views, their look, their friends, their taste quite a lot. Yes she wore baggy clothes. But was that really due to a deep-seated belief or was it a selling point? However much you might prefer young female singers to cover themselves up, she's under no obligation to embody those ideals if she doesn't want to.

@InTheMiddle23

Truth is, she looks awful. Awkward, trying to pull a sexy face.

Certainly not helping the conversation from any kind of feminist standard to say that a woman clearly far closer along the "conventionally attractive" scale than a majority of women is described as looking awful. What kind of standard does that hold other women to?

@lazylinguist

Maybe young talented performers were always screwed over by management or marketing. Very few seem to stick to their guns.

The thing is, how do you really know what their guns actually are or were? She's very young. Teenagers tend to change their views, their look, their friends, their taste quite a lot. Yes she wore baggy clothes. But was that really due to a deep-seated belief or was it a selling point? However much you might prefer young female singers to cover themselves up, she's under no obligation to embody those ideals if she doesn't want to.

Thats true. Maybe she is revealing her true side. Or maybe not.

Never mind the standards that other women are being held to (although yes this is true) @aSofaNearYou - why the hell is it ok to say another woman 'looks awful'?

@InTheMiddle23 that comment is horrible and you should be ashamed of yourself, this is why this shit continues. Stop commented on other people's appearance ffs.

Equally pissed off with the comments about Ed Sheeran's appearance. No he may not face the same pressures as BE but it's pretty unpleasant to be commenting on his looks.

Well when Lewis Capaldi starts dating someone from love island and does interviews shirtless with a 6 pack, I'll start a thread on here.
That do you?

Go on, @ssd. You know you want to.

pbs.twimg.com/media/EF-o5OHWkAUB8Im.jpg

I felt really disappointed in her when I saw those photos.

It feels grubby, and predictable.

I despair for young girls these days - so few role models that don't shove fillers into their faces and pose like porn stars.

@MrsIsobelCrawley, i bloody love him. Did you see him half cut on Graham Norton, after performing? He was funnier than everyone there.

@slashlover

Men certainly aren't required to undress to be famous.

Because clearly, sexy dancing and writhing around is only for women and not something that men do, and that was the 'girly' side of Sam Smith in that video.

May I introduce you to Boyzone, Take That and New Kids on the Block? The video Take That did for "Pray" was 99% them sexy dancing and writhing around. The "Do What You Like" video was them in cycling shorts and chainmail codpieces rubbing jelly and cream on themselves.

There are are the manufactured boy bands and Justin Bieber etc. and they are pressurised too. But it’s not quite as hardcore sexualised. (Altho I think there is likely comparable sexual abuse of boys as girls within the industry).

I can’t think of a male singer who I feel has been pressured to style themselves as a sex worker the way of Xtina, Rihanna etc.

There are women on these forums who can't stand up to their own husbands, yet you expect a 19 year old to stand up to the entire music industry?

I guess that’s a fair point to an extent, but to what extent? Follow that through, as so many of these female solo artists have, and we are left with the only view of females no matter how ‘original and creative’, ‘stunning and brave’ or ... ... they’re all victims. Forever and ever, Marilyn Munro perennial sex goddess and victim.

They must have some money as resources to be able to do what they do in the first place, and their ‘creativity’ gives them more. That means they have choice. They could opt out and try to forge a different path. But no, all of them sit around in their underwear and invite us to spend money on them because they’re so hopelessly female. [Much like many motorists who talk men into helping them change their wheels.]

As someone who could so very easily have wandered down to the local drug dealers, funded and legitimised by well-off groups to terrorise many local British estates, I’m not buying it any more. There are other choices. There are plenty of role models following the punk era, there’s some still out there now.

Makes me think of that Billy Connolly sketch, where a 23 year old tells him she's an expert at Feng Shui, and he replies "At 23 you're not old enough to a fucking expert on anything".

And she's 19! Paah, she's just a kid.

Twoobles Mon 03-May-21 14:03:15
"A load of middle aged (as you described yourself as being) jealous cows on here hating on a 19 year old. I am so utterly embarrassed for you. Imagine being on this earth for that many years and having absolutely no grace or decorum. Who trailed you up?

You’re lucky SM wasn’t a thing in “your day”. You have no idea how lucky you are. Now, please, jog on. I’m sure there’s an 18 year old customer advisor in ASDA who needs you to give them a right bollocking today for not offering you a bag."

Wtf is that doing on mumsnet? I despair at the misogyny, ageism and crassness of it. Do we presume 'trailed up' is equivalent to 'dragged up'? Are we being accused of being badly raised by someone who calls people jealous cows?

And grace and decorum being called for by someone calling women jealous cows

@TheHoneyBadger, who knows. I ignored that poster.

@aSofaNearYou - why the hell is it ok to say another woman 'looks awful'?

I don't think it is, I was quoting somebody else saying that.

ps one person called herself middle aged - it didn't give you the right to use it as an insult against a whole collection of women.

Mind you, someone else called me jealous hours ago, they weren't the first

Yes, I'm middle aged. Doesn't bother me in the least. Better than the alternative.

Posters on here really should wise up on the level of sexism in the music industry. Particularly post #metoo.

If you just Google that one phrase you will get many hits.

Example from Marie Claire:

The star herself sits alone and crying on the other side of the room, wearing hotpants, a bralette and sky-high stilettoes. A make-up artist and several stylists look on in awkward silence. By the time the shoot is abandoned, the singer’s crimes have been spelled out to her in the most degrading terms possible.

The men explained they weren’t happy with the way she was moving; she looked “lumpy” and “overweight”, although she was tiny,’ a witness on the shoot tells Marie Claire. ‘One of them told her she’d need to lose weight and practise her sexy dancing, because she didn’t look “shaggable enough”. She was clearly devastated, but she just nodded and mumbled, “OK.”’

Attempts to control a young female artist’s image and make her more commercially appealing by ‘encouraging’ her to lose weight and wear sexier clothing is a common scenario that singer-songwriter Lauren Aquilina, 21, has experienced first-hand. ‘I’ve been in so many situations where my image has been commented on as public property,’ she says. ‘When I was younger, I did a shoot for a partnership with a fashion brand and I was told by a guy who was high up in the company, “These clothes are designed for small women, so if you want to work with us in the future you should think about losing weight, because this isn’t really working at the moment.” I was crushed. I was only a size 10, but I started wondering if he was right.

‘I’ve been told repeatedly that to be successful, boys need to fancy you and girls need to want to be you. I’ve been asked, “When are you going to start looking like a pop star?” I don’t look like a typical pop star; I’m not a size six and I don’t wear skimpy clothes. I think my fans like that because they can relate to me. But I’ve felt so much pressure to compete with other girls in the music industry, and until recently it really affected me.’

www.marieclaire.co.uk/reports/music-industry-sexism-426585

That means they have choice. They could opt out and try to forge a different path

A lot of them get signed up with punishing record contracts at a young age before they really know what they're getting into, and the music industry have excellent lawyers.

The music industry chews up and spits out young men too.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the baggy clothes were to sell Eilish as 'the one who won't be sexualised', and the subsequent photoshoot is cashing in on the scarcity value.

Thats awful. Who knew it was so bad?

I think there’s a lot of overthinking going on. If she wants to carry on being a famous musician she has to be noticed either by writing/performing a new good song, or if there’s nowt in the tank, do something else controversial enough to keep her in the public eye until she comes up with a song. I’m guessing for her this was the relatively easy something else.

No judgment I think most would, but all the word salad in the world isn’t really why, it’s always fame and money.

Because we all made sensible, well thought out, strong choices when we were nineteen...

Honestly though what the hell has happened if people genuinely believe it's empowering to be photographed in your underwear? And if young women think they're being feminists by calling people middle aged jealous cows?

Apparently now it's empowering to be spat on and choked, to chop your healthy breasts off and destroy your health with testosterone, to be a 'sex worker', etc. We have entered the twilight zone.

@ssd

Thats awful. Who knew it was so bad?

Anyone who pays attention

Er, everyone?