To ask wtf is cis privilege and why does it need to be tackled

[KateWinceyette]

Seriously, what is cis privilege? My phone doesn't know because it corrected it to customer privilege!

Please explain to me in simple terms for I am simply a woman who doesn't get it.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

And the reason that transgenderists do not like girls and women discussing menstruation is because it demonstrates material reality. It demonstrates that biological sex exists as an inescapable reality. It demonstrates that MtF transgenderists are not materially female and that they are only ideologically female. And that in turn reminds them that they are only ideologically female if everyone is compliant with the ideology. So shut up talking about female stuff like periods already.

Brilliant point.

Hmmmm

Have been agreeing with this but just had another thought.

Periods are pretty grim. Men have made all sorts of weird religious rules about how menstrusting women are unclean etc. And well for me and most other women I would guess they're not great. Unpredictable, messy. In het relationships I have heard that plenty of men don't want to get, um. Involved in that area at that time of the month. Etc.

For men who see women in 2D it must be a headfuck to reconcile sexy laydee/ leggy blonde/ gorgeous scantily clad late teen with... Controlling blood being discharged from the vagina once a month. Not very sexy. Definitely not at all feminine.

So could some discomfort be to do with the reality being a real downer on the idea.

I mean when that thing 'what would you do if you were the opposite sex for a day' thing comes up. No men asked that I've heard have said bleed heavily from my vagina and still have to go to work and worry about it going through my clothes. Usually it's play with my boobs and then they run out of ideas!

And women never say. Go for a man shit to understand why they have such issues pushing a crap out and then go to a pub with the wrong shirt on and get kicked in.

So maybe it's not so much about interfering with an idea about being a woman that invokes a feeling of exclusion etc. Maybe it's about spoiling the idea of femininity/ womanliness with base gross bodily stuff that tbh men still don't like hearing even from their loved ones iyswim.

So essentially it's sodding with spoiling all the fun as usual.

Just remembered that I have seen a fair few posts about how periods = being emotional, bursting into tears, eating lots of ice cream and chocolate. Oh, and being a short tempered 'bitch'.

The whole expelling the lining of your uterus part (definition of menstruation) is apparently trivial and not the main thing at all. It's mainly about crying and eating chocolate.

So I don't think that maybe it's about feeling excluded because of not bleeding. I think maybe it's because bleeding is kind of revolting and unmentionable and just why are you talking about that? The ice cream and crying thing (by no means a given for women) is the bit that is interesting.

Beachcomber
And the reason that transgenderists do not like girls and women discussing menstruation is because it demonstrates material reality. It demonstrates that biological sex exists as an inescapable reality. It demonstrates that MtF transgenderists are not materially female and that they are only ideologically female. And that in turn reminds them that they are only ideologically female if everyone is compliant with the ideology. So shut up talking about female stuff like periods already.

**

Yes. Yes. Yes.

I am still reeling from the appointment of a Transwoman in the post of CEO of the Rape Crisis Centre in Edinburgh. A post advertised for female applicants only. What the ACTUAL FUCK. We know the vast majority of rape victims are women, we know a female only environment feels safer for those who have been victim of sexual assault. But no. This seems the perfect time and place to employ a biologically male person who has their own fervent agenda about promoting the rights of other biologically male people to be in female only spaces. Has the world gone absolutely bloody crazy?

Ah, bold fail. Post should have looked like this:

Beachcomber
And the reason that transgenderists do not like girls and women discussing menstruation is because it demonstrates material reality. It demonstrates that biological sex exists as an inescapable reality. It demonstrates that MtF transgenderists are not materially female and that they are only ideologically female. And that in turn reminds them that they are only ideologically female if everyone is compliant with the ideology. So shut up talking about female stuff like periods already

**

Yes. Yes. Yes.

I am still reeling from the appointment of a Transwoman in the post of CEO of the Rape Crisis Centre in Edinburgh. A post advertised for female applicants only. What the ACTUAL FUCK. We know the vast majority of rape victims are women, we know a female only environment feels safer for those who have been victim of sexual assault. But no. This seems the perfect time and place to employ a biologically male person who has their own fervent agenda about promoting the rights of other biologically male people to be in female only spaces. Has the world gone absolutely bloody crazy?

@Pedalpushers

This thread is woefully misunderstanding the concept of privilege. If you have any sort of privilege it does NOT mean your life is in no way difficult for any means. Cis privilege does NOT mean being a woman is not hard or that it doesn't come with its own oppression, it literally just means that whatever oppression you experience as a person is not because of being transgender. Same as white privilege - it doesn't mean that every white person has a charmed life, just that their life isn't more difficult on account of being white.

Whether or not 'privilege' should come into universities etc. is a separate discussion, but the concept is VERY simple. There is a word that accounts for the specific hardships of being a woman - it's called male privilege.

Lol at people not understand if. Transwomen have male privilege. Transwomen expect privilege, expect to be believed that they are oppressed and expect special treatment. All this expectation proves is that they weren’t oppressed in the first place. Oppressed people don’t have the capacity to demand otherwise. Simply stating you don’t have male privilege doesn’t make it so. Those born in a male body will always have male privilege even if they have sex reassignment surgery simply because they are born in a male body.

Whereas women cannot identify out of being well, oppressed women. Because males are the oppressors.

NiceGerbil, I'm sure you are right that for some transwomen the idea of periods spoils the sexaay fantasy woman image.

However when making that above post about periods I was thinking about how menstruation is fetishized by some transwomen. There are forums and so on where transgenderists discuss their behavior around the subject and much of it is pretty disturbing (IMO). Stuff like being overly interested in the contents of sanitary bins in women's toilets / getting off on listening to women change tampons and towels, etc.

I've also come across transgenderists who consider menstruation as the Holy Grail of womaning and who find it deeply painful that a neovagina does not bleed in this way.

Having said that, I'm sure there are many different views among transgenderists regarding menstruation as they are, after all, individuals.

On a political level in general I think a lot of the weirdness that various cultures and institutions have about menstruation is deeply patriarchal. A lot of patriarchy is concerned with controlling reproduction and women's reproductive role. I think patriarchal culture uses the idea that menstruation is foul and taboo in order to keep us in our place and socialise girls and women into acceptance of our status as the second sex. Menstruation reminds everyone that girls and women possess all the wombs in the world and that we are very much the first sex when it comes to continuing the line and the having of babies.

Anyway no matter what the reason, men telling women to STFU about menstruation is as old as the hills and clearly demonstrates that trans ideology is just more of the same old misogyny.

I'm not linking to them but I've seen some essays by transwomen claiming that they do indeed have periods because they cramp at certain times of the month.

I can just about believe that you might experience psychosomatic stomach pains at certain times due to really, really wanting it to be the case, but it's not a period pain. It's not happening in a uterus. There is no uterus there.

There appears to be no equivalent desire for, or fetishisation of, menopause. I'm sure this has nothing to do with menopause being associated with ageing and loss of fertility

The main rationale behind this idea is to make one disadvantaged group appear privileged so that another group ,which has benefited from the very privilege that oppresses the first group , can style themselves as more oppressed. This mirrors the attitude of many men who as soon as the subject of male violence against women arises, jump in with comments like" men are assaulted more often than women" , " men get raped too" , women kill, sexually assault too etc. , while deliberately ignoring the fact that almost all sex offences ( 99.04%) and almost 90% of all violent crimes are committed by members of the male sex.

The best I can make out (and I'm probably very wrong)

Is that transgendered individuals have previously been a group who are very vulnerable because of unfair treatment, homelessness, joblessness was I believe I remember reading at 90% higher than the general population. From my understanding in the 80s /90s violent attacks and sexual assaults were often ignored by the police.

I think they're saying to be CIS you don't have to deal with these issues. I agree that it must appear as a privileged position to someone who is transgender, given the issues they will face to be accepted and treated as the sex they believe is right.

But I worry that this is another term that will slowly erode womens position in society even further. As a woman, I do not feel that I am in a privileged position, and I really think that it seems to create a them vs us situation.

I think that's quite a good summary. The key difference is that the demographic group has changed, and you no longer need to have gender dysphoria or even identify/present as the opposite sex full time to identify yourself as "trans".

that transgendered individuals have previously been a group who are very vulnerable because of unfair treatment, homelessness, joblessness was I believe I remember reading at 90% higher than the general population. From my understanding in the 80s /90s violent attacks and sexual assaults were often ignored by the police.

I have no doubt that people who identify as trans have been and are vulnerable to discrimination. However, there is no evidence that they are any more vulnerable to the unfair treatment you describe above than many other groups including single mothers. As to violence, statistics show that this group are actually safer than many other groups, for example a transwomen is far less likely to be killed than a woman. Regarding sexual assaults being ignored by police, one has only to read the papers and look at the number of convictions for rape to note that this is an area where the greatest numbers of victims are women. To then say these women have* privilege is truly abhorrent.

As to violence, statistics show that this group are actually safer than many other groups, for example a transwomen is far less likely to be killed than a woman. Regarding sexual assaults being ignored by police, one has only to read the papers and look at the number of convictions for rape to note that this is an area where the greatest numbers of victims are women. To then say these women have* privilege is truly abhorrent.

Yes, it beggars belief that this is the claim.

It functions to hide sexism and enable men to claim power over and silence women.

This recent article by Michael Conroy is worth reading,
'On ‘Cis’ [sic] – and why it’s not ‘being nice’'
concludes:
"Many women refuse to accept the label for exactly this reason, knowing well that it means, inescapably, accepting the gendered propaganda that has historically constrained — and still constrains — them as a sex class. These non-compliant women are routinely vilified (‘bigot’, transphobe’, ‘TERF’ etc) harassed, misrepresented and threatened for refusing to put on the ‘cis’ bonnet . As a man I support these women in this and reject the impossibly sexist ‘cis’ [sic] label myself, entirely and emphatically. How could I — doing the work I do in striving to delegitimise and challenge sexist beliefs in boys and men — do otherwise? Men who accept the notion ‘cis’ are doing so for a variety of reasons — mostly underpinned, by the privileges and entitlements we derive from living in a deeply sexist culture but which we rarely bother — or wish — to see.
Brothers — think about it."
manatwork68.medium.com/save-draft-1d26e5dbeba6

Michael Conroy's 'Men at Work' engages with boys and young men:

We want to help end #sexism, #maleviolence and the harms that flow from rigid gender rules/roles. We want to promote good #mentalhealth, respectful relationships and an outlook of practical empathy

menatworkcic.org/

Personally I'm at the point now that if anyone mentions 'cis' anything I just assume that at base they hate women and girls or at the very least want to take away our rights.

I find this saves a lot of time and is usually correct. Of course, often it's internalised misogyny. But people who assign me and my daughters as 'cis' without talking to us are usually those who want to deny my daughters the right to single sex spaces in secondary schools. Presumably because they don't care about period shaming, the epidemic of sexual assault in schools or that girls in this country feel able to access their education (a human right) during their periods.

FWIW, I'm definitely not 'cis' even if I accepted the category, which I don't. I'm not feminine, never wear makeup or skirts. By the genderists definitions I'm definitely non-binary or trans. But i'm obviously a woman - so apparently I don't get to self-ID and genderists seem to feel happy to assign 'cis' to women as a class without bothering to ask us what our identity is or if we mind.

Which is a bit transphobic for a movement that claims self-ID is important. They must be misgendering a massive amount of women literally every time they use the term to refer to women in general.

@VladmirsPoutine

I think it's a not very clever attempt by the daily mail to stoke the culture war using 'wokeim' to fuel its flames.

The DM didn't invent the term, though.

Its interesting that many of those male who insist on labelling women as 'cisgender' and claiming we have privilege are also so apparently angry when women refuse to comply with their demands.
Much of the focus of gendered stereotypes concerns dress and appearence however standards of 'feminity' includes behaviour expectations such as nurturance, sensitivity, sweetness, supportiveness, gentleness, warmth, passivity, cooperativeness, expressiveness, modesty, humility, empathy, affection, tenderness, and being emotional, kind, helpful, devoted, understanding etc.

Most trans widows agree that our exes have never acted more like men than they have since they decided to transition.

Personally I'm at the point now that if anyone mentions 'cis' anything I just assume that at base they hate women and girls or at the very least want to take away our rights.

YY me too. I see it as a "dog whistle".

I'm concerned by the often young women who enthusiastically label themselves 'cis'. Are they really affirming their complete compliance to all expectations of femininity as per Stepford Wives?

I think it's their 'Inner Beryl' i.e. they're so conditioned to put mens needs above their own that they are willing to accept something that's detrimental to themselves.

But at least those who say they're 'cis' are identifying into it and not being assigned it without consent like most women.

I can't decide if I hate 'cis' more or the use of biological terms to replace the word 'women'. Both are misogynistic as hell and incredibly offensive and - unsurprisingly - something that happens notably less often to men.

E.g. I've seen plenty of stuff aimed at 'people who menstruate' but yet to see anything aimed at 'people who ejaculate'.

Absolutely horrendous.

@R0wantrees

I'm concerned by the often young women who enthusiastically label themselves 'cis'. Are they really affirming their complete compliance to all expectations of femininity as per Stepford Wives?

I remember seeing a young woman stand up in front of a trade union women's conference and say that the people most affected by domestic abuse are trans people and that we women really need to think more about supporting them. I think she did it as a sort of attention seeking gotcha.

I think sometimes this is as result of manipulation/coersion.

But at least those who say they're 'cis' are identifying into it and not being assigned it without consent like most women.

Assuming they understand the implications. It’s like pronoun usage - it’s a red flag for me but a lot of women are just likely to be ‘being kind’.