To want to give my children a private education?

[NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]

Really need some input to try and persuade my husband!
My three are all quite bright academically and they are all pretty good with music too. Youngest (9) is very sporty as well.

We’ve recently applied for scholarships and bursaries at a local private school and my husband is still very much on the fence about it all.

The two girls (13, 12) have been offered a total of 70% and 75% discount with scholarships and bursaries and the youngest has been offered a total of 55%

I know that my eldest would do well in state school regardless but I think the younger two would absolutely flourish with the smaller class sizes and the sporting facilities on offer.

My husband thinks we’d be better off putting the £15-£20k per year in our pension pots. I’m not currently working but I’m looking for a full time job from September. I’m a teacher so my salary would cover the fees and my mother in law has also offered to contribute £3-£4K a year towards it. His salary is plenty for us to live on comfortably.

DH would like us to sit down with a list of pros and cons for them to attend this school and I’m hoping that mumsnet can help with a list of pros!

Mind you that wasn’t at private school

I’m just still really interested on what school it is 😂

@Ladydayblues1

Bellisima234 that's what happened to our friends daughter. Her bully came from a wealthy family and so they didn't want to loose their donations. Poor girl was mercilessly bullied. They pulled her out and thankfully she managed to get back on track in a new school. Pastoral care isn't as objective as some would like to believe. The school is a business first and foremost. That drives most decisions behind the scenes.

A lot of people won't believe this, probably because they've never had to deal with it but as soon as something goes wrong then they can potentially start to see the darker side.

You are spot on ultimately these schools are businesses. It was only when my son tried to take his own life and we pulled him out immediately they chose to address things but it was too late. Even then there was still denial but they did back down financially as the shit hit the fan in the first couple of days in the school year and they hadn’t debited our fees for that term and technically we owed them another terms fees for notice. We immediately stopped the payment going through and they never came after us for the fees which surprised us.

Scholarships aren’t only given to pupils with cash strapped parents.

It’s partly if they they want your kids as pupils.

My niece was offered a triple scholarship to a very good boarding school - because they really wanted her and she also gained scholarships to other schools.

There is a difference between scholarships - academic bursaries and non academic bursaries.

@TatianaBis

It’s true private schools tend to have better music departments. If there are a lot of E.Asian pupils the standard should be good.

That said, grade 5 and 6 average for 9 and 11 year olds.

I wouldn’t say they are average - certainly their music teacher (in the music dept of a different private school) doesn’t think so. My 9 year old has only been playing for around 18mths and my 11 year old about 2.5 years.

You must have KS3 children all doing performance diplomas in your area then?

[quote Umbrellospagello]@TatianaBis

How is grade 5 average for a 9 year old? I didn’t start learning until I was 9 and finished the grades off. I don’t know many that started before junior age to be honest![/quote]
I started when I was 3 as do many students, particularly musicians’ children. It’s common to start at that age in E.Europe, Russia, Asia etc.

If you’d wanted to be professional 9 is too late.

If you can manage it financially, go for it!

@TatianaBis

Well yes I am definitely not a professional. It doesn’t mean that grade 5 at age 9 is average though.

I have 2 children, both went private up to 11, then for various reasons we could not continue the costs. My son went to a superselective grammar and has done very well and my daughter is in a very good state comp.

Based on my experiences I would say;

Be careful of stretching yourself financially. Private school can be fantastic, my daughter's prep was, but if anything goes wrong, say loss of job, illness, anything it becomes a noose around your neck very very quickly.

If your husband has reservations now, this is likely to become a massive source of conflict for the two of you.

Be wary that they are throwing bursaries around like confetti. Such a school may not be in a great financial position. If they go under you can find your children are without a school place with little or no notice.

Scholarships come with strings, eg if a child leaves before the natural final year they are repayable in full.

Private schools are all about their reputation, if your teenager starts dropping grades they may be excluded from sitting an exam in a subject and explusion for bad behaviour is far easier in a private than state school. An awful lot of kids go through a rebellious phase, yours may too.

Tread very very carefully op. Quite honestly I dont think you can afford it because you need to know you can pay for all 3 until the end. You don't. You are hoping you can

If my kids had a discount like this I would jump at the chance. I have one child at an independent school and one child at state. The difference in what is on on offer is incredible. One child survives in state and does ok, I know life opportunities would be better in independent, but I can’t afford it. My other child would fail in state school but does ok (just ) in independent (EHCP funded)t. Private all the way if you can get it.

@TatianaBis I know plenty of professional musicians who didn’t start playing until 6 or 7 and didn’t do G5 upwards until they were in their mid-late teens.

Your buy-to-let is your pension, surely. I'd choose private education every time unless the local state schools were outstanding. Maybe your youngest doesn't need to go private till secondary age if he is in a good primary school. By that time, the eldest would be almost ready to do A levels so it would only be 2 fees to find for the majority of the time.

@TatianaBis

Scholarships aren’t only given to pupils with cash strapped parents.

It’s partly if they they want your kids as pupils.

My niece was offered a triple scholarship to a very good boarding school - because they really wanted her and she also gained scholarships to other schools.

The only year 6 kids I know on grade 5/6 are the ones being pushed to get music scholarships for secondary school! I don’t think there are very many children who would get there by that stage without starting young and having lots of lessons!

Th e children earned themselves the scholarship/discount- let them take it!

As these schools are businesses, would it not be believable that they set the fees at say £10k a term and then offer a % discount (bursary) to a lot of people? The fees are basically arbitrarily set as the schools all receive public funding for each pupil to cover the education. Then the better off parents will be partly subsidising the others with discounts/bursaries. But everyone will be receiving more than a state school because they are throwing tens of thousands at it per year?

Bellisima234 just so, so sorry that you have had that experience. So many parents seem to think that all these schools truly care about their child... pastoral care etc. etc.... and some of those parents look the other way when they have clear evidence that this is not the case.

The Everyone's Invited revelations are even more shocking if we consider that parents (and some parents must have known) what was going on in their children's schools, to their friends' children.

Those who are concerned I’m only considering sending two of them, I most definitely am not. I think the youngest two would benefit the most but for me it’s an all or nothing situation. They all get it or none get it.

OP my point is that if they are musically gifted then a school orchestra is a waste of time, and certainly not a reason to seek out and pay for a private education. For a serious musician then it’s actually pretty rubbish being forced to play with people of a much lower standard than you, even if they are the same age. There will be others of their age in extra curricular settings at the right level. They should be considering NCO/NYO and as I said conservatoire JDs where there will be lots of peers their age and younger at their standard and higher.

I usually say you would be daft to embark on private education. I know plenty of privately educated grown-ups, that let's say didn't make their parents sacrifices worth it. However, the discounts you've been offered, I'd go for it.

Just a small note of caution, I was terribly bullied at my two privately educated secondary schools. It's not necessarily always perfect in the Private sector.

DD1 is at a private school, but DS is at local just out of special measures comp

Here is just a summary of my views:

Private school gives DD quite a bit of work, and she finishes classes at 18:00 (Y10).

DS is incredibly bright, but really enjoys having local friends. The social side is a major plus side and the students there is more representative of the rest of the UK. The comp does have a reputation of being a, 'rough,' school complete with its own police officer but he has been thriving.

The teaching at DD's school and DS school is equal.

Any gaps, I have managed with tutors. DS was not doing great in science, mostly due to lockdown, but also he just wasn't getting it, so he has been getting an hour a week which has made a massive difference.

If I had to do it again, would probably want DD1 to go to the local comp, but at the time she applied herself and managed to get a high scholarship and bursary. She misses not having local friends and while she does have friends at her private school, it's not the same as being spontaneous and going to a friend a few streets away.

Private secondary schools even!

I'm confused about the bursaries even the generous London ones I know cut off at 80k (& the discount at that range isn't great) plus often equity & other property is looked at.

[quote NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]@TatianaBis I know plenty of professional musicians who didn’t start playing until 6 or 7 and didn’t do G5 upwards until they were in their mid-late teens.[/quote]
‘Professional musician’ is a very broad term. From virtuoso to school guitar teacher.

It’s common in England to start at 6 or 7, but that’s partly why many children don’t stick it out. You’ve got your work cut out to get good quickly.

@tecatea

I'm confused about the bursaries even the generous London ones I know cut off at 80k (& the discount at that range isn't great) plus often equity & other property is looked at.

Yup, and the added documents added this year was the pension estimates...