To want to give my children a private education?

[NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]

Really need some input to try and persuade my husband!
My three are all quite bright academically and they are all pretty good with music too. Youngest (9) is very sporty as well.

We’ve recently applied for scholarships and bursaries at a local private school and my husband is still very much on the fence about it all.

The two girls (13, 12) have been offered a total of 70% and 75% discount with scholarships and bursaries and the youngest has been offered a total of 55%

I know that my eldest would do well in state school regardless but I think the younger two would absolutely flourish with the smaller class sizes and the sporting facilities on offer.

My husband thinks we’d be better off putting the £15-£20k per year in our pension pots. I’m not currently working but I’m looking for a full time job from September. I’m a teacher so my salary would cover the fees and my mother in law has also offered to contribute £3-£4K a year towards it. His salary is plenty for us to live on comfortably.

DH would like us to sit down with a list of pros and cons for them to attend this school and I’m hoping that mumsnet can help with a list of pros!

I considered private for dd1, she is very academic but also has Aspergers, the smaller class sizes would have really suited her. In the end she chose a local state school but not a feeder school from her primary, the school wasn’t one of the top achieving schools, it’s ofstead wasn’t brilliant but we liked the feel of it when visiting, class sizes were not huge, the school is quite small and very friendly. Dd achieved all A’s A*’s (level 8 and 9’s) in her GCSE and is now working towards 3 A’s in Alevel. I’m glad I didn’t send her to private school though I do think she would have done equally as good there.

If you can afford it then I would say go for it, it’s not just the fees but the uniform, the school trips and keeping up with their friends that costs the money.

Our experience with private school was very mixed. It started off well with all the positives already mentioned , then the school merged with another smaller private school in the area (without informing or consulting with any of the parents - I guess that's business) and it went significantly downhill from there in terms of lesson disruption, standard of teaching, management of bullying and other issues. I think a PP mentioned that smaller class sizes are a blessing and a curse and I agree with this, particularly for girls, as children are very much stuck with the same cohort for several years running with no means to expand their friendship group and as we know from girls friendship groups, they can get very testy through the years.

There is definitely a lot of snobbery and social climbing which if you're not into that networking scene (I'm definitely not) you will find uncomfortable to witness and your interaction or lack of will reflect on how your children are regarded.

My DD attended private from primary to end of secondary and opted for a state 6th form afterwards and she had had enough of the place (only 6 from her year stayed on for 6th form) and now she's at Uni having received lots of unconditional offers based solely on her 6th form work.

There are pro's and con's and for some it will be life changing but it's all about what you think the best thing for your own children is.

@lazylinguist One of the comments I made was a lighthearted comment about the quality of my own schooling. It was made amongst complimentary and reassuring or otherwise constructive comments about the op. But well done for deliberately misunderstanding me. It just have been difficult to do.

My comprehension is generally pretty good, thanks. I'm not suggesting that you were being offensive or anything, merely that when the OP has made it pretty clear what her priorities for her very bright children are, and that she is probably financially in a position to make them possible, telling her that they probably wouldn't fail their exams or turn out rude and lazy at a state schoop might not be quite as reassuring as you seem to think.

Do your 2 eldest want to move? What is 6th form like would they stay or want to move to state 6th form. Do they want to do IB?
If you can only afford with you working full time when did you last work full time? It’s a lot of pressure on you to get and keep a job especially if you have health issues. Lose your job and you have to move them - mid gcses could be disastrous.
There’s a very well known boarding school near me. Lots of international students so they look for local academic children to boost English speakers and results. I know children that were ‘middle table’ at dc’s primary that were offered academic scholarships so not high requirements. I use gym there and see students many have none English which may affect friendships.

@Wavymess

I went to a failing state school in a terrible area, got all As at GCSE and at 6th form I went to a bog standard university and got a first, a distinction in my masters and then I got a PhD. I worked since I was 15 to be able to afford all that and I earn an excellent wage now.

I think on MN there’s a tendency to not want children to face a bit of hardship and to give them as much privilege as possible, and whilst that can be a good thing, so can them fighting for what they want.

I think with supportive parents and their own drive children will do anywhere. Private school seems like it just provides a network and role models, as well as more coaching into how to get into those elite universities and jobs.

Have a think about what you’re hoping to achieve by them being in private school, and then maybe see if for less than that 20k or so a year if you could still provide that.
For example could you get them each a tutor, pay for some extra help around university applications time, put them in some better sports clubs etc
Or would more cultural and educational days out and holidays be as enriching. Is there a better state school they could transfer to?

If not, then I think that’s your argument.

I went to a selective private school and it was horrible.

Bitchy, snobby (that was just the teachers).

I've done ok but it made me lose interest in school.

I got a degree straight after school but left it a few years before I went back to do an MSc.

Scholarships like that are gold dust. I don’t know why you’re even hesitating.

Well I do because your DH would rather spend the money on himself than his kids.

I don’t think you’re impulsive and he is practical, I think that’s sexist nonsense. I think you’re more focused on your kids and he’s more focused on himself.

Personally I would spend the money on moving to an area with better schools. The idea of you working full time in teaching to pay for something that is free anyway is just crazy. You have an autoimmune disease. If you struggled to cope then how could you pull them out of school? You shouldn't accept your MIL's offer of money, either.

Have a think about what you’re hoping to achieve by them being in private school, and then maybe see if for less than that 20k or so a year if you could still provide that. For example could you get them each a tutor, pay for some extra help around university applications time, put them in some better sports clubs etc

What’s the point? If you’re going to send 20k a year anyway you might as well spend it in one place and have all the extras laid on for you rather than dicking around looking for hit and miss tutoring.

@NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom you need to seriously consider what will happen if your health worsens. I know that you have every intention of being able to work full time for the next 10 years, but your health matters more than a few extra A grades in your DCs exams or having a good school orchestra. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

@TatianaBis

Scholarships like that are gold dust. I don’t know why you’re even hesitating.

Well I do because your DH would rather spend the money on himself than his kids.

I don’t think you’re impulsive and he is practical, I think that’s sexist nonsense. I think you’re more focused on your kids and he’s more focused on himself.

It's worth heistating and thinking about why they're being offered such a large discount, as others have said it rings alarm bells for the viability of the school. If it seems too good to be true, then it probably is.

I think you will be putting yourselves under too much financial pressure. Also I think you view private schools through rose tinted spectacles. I think the super discounted fees are suspicious too.

Thing with scholarships - if OP got ill the school may well pay the full fees if the kids are doing well.

I used to work with a teacher who worked purely to put her children through private school. Her children are now adults and have done very well.

I’m not sure why all the comments re the bursaries. There are several private schools in our area who are still offering places, scholarships and bursaries at the moment, especially for day pupils. The school we are considering is wanting to increase its day pupil numbers as they have a large percentage of foreign students.

Re the music that someone mentioned, my youngest will have easily got to G8 on his first instrument by age 13. He’s 9 and already on G5. Middle one is doing G6 next month (age 11). They all do county orchestras and ensembles but I wanted a school orchestra where they would be playing with children their own age. Because they are playing at a fairly advanced level, the county orchestras are determined by what grade you are on. So my youngest is playing with teenagers. School orchestras tend to include everyone.

MN is very anti-private schools on the whole, so I'm not sure a balanced view is going to be had on here.

But I would dispute the idea that a bright child will do equally well anywhere. If people really believed that then why all the fighting for the "desirable" school?
I wonder how many people that say that also bought/rented their house with an eye on what school their child could end up going to?

There are good and bad private as much as good and bad state schools. The Op is the only one who can try and judge whether their state or the private they've had the offer from are equivalent or one is better, and whether it is worth the difference in money.

My 3 are all state school, and it's been fine for them. They're at the nearest comprehensive.
Would they have done better at a private? I have absolutely no way of knowing. Perhaps my bigger question is would they have been happier at a private? Again, I don't know. It probably depends as much on who is in their form/year and whether they get a nice group of friends, and that is impossible to say.

DS is at private school and it has been fantastic but sending him hasn't been a stretch for us. Three is a lot even with help, I'm not sure if I would do it if it meant we would struggle I think you have to know that you will be able to afford it until all three have finished school and that's a huge commitment

I would be wondering how secure the school is in terms of pupil numbers if it's that eager to get bums through the doors. I worked at a few private schools over the years - but financially there are a lot of the middle-lower tier ones really struggling and lots of closures/merges going on. The one I was working at was wonderful in terms of glossy brochures and marketing - but the quality of education was NOT what they were trying to make it out to be - and there wasn't much planning of a coherent progression of topics going on at all until I started there! It ended up closing at quite short notice and the parents (and staff but no one cared about us) were really fucked until they got new places lined up - but obviously that costs money in terms of uniforms, disrupted childcare arrangements, very very unsettled children etc.

Lots are up against dwindling numbers. Likewise lots recruited students heavily from China, Hong Kong etc to make up the shortfall in boarding numbers - and obviously that's all been thrown into disarray because of Covid so I would reckon there are more likely to go under as time goes on.

They can be amazing (there's an independent special school I'd love DD2 to go to but we can't get any joy with a statement and cannot afford it ourselves) - but just be careful cos there are some beautifully presented turds out there in the sector.

It’s worth heistating and thinking about why they're being offered such a large discount, as others have said it rings alarm bells for the viability of the school. If it seems too good to be true, then it probably is.

Doesn’t mean anything of the sort. It depends on the foundation of the school. Some are very wealthy and offer discretionary awards to promising students. I know a couple of kids on 100% scholarships to really good schools.

My two boys attend private school. They are in reception (from September) and year 1. My oldest is like yours very bright. He can read words from the first time of seeing them. We looked at our local school but the class size was our main problem. One of the schools we looked at had 90 children in the reception year! I thought as he was bright he would get lost. I wanted him to have the best chance i could give him. When we saw the school its everything we wanted. Smaller classes, more focus on the basics and a good overall schooling. The only thing was paying for it. When I worked it out it was the cost of and instead of things that state school i would have to pay for like school means and stationary was included.

Its great that your husband wants to see the bigger picture before he sends your children. He should. For me the question was what is better for my son. What would allow him to grow and for me private won

@Grimbelina

The school is a business first and foremost. That drives most decisions behind the scenes. A lot of people won't believe this, probably because they've never had to deal with it but as soon as something goes wrong then they can potentially start to see the darker side.

Ladydayblues1 I am not the only one who feels this then...

It’s equally true of many academies which are outside of LA control and are run along the lines of private businesses. Free schools also allowed to do their own thing

It’s true private schools tend to have better music departments. If there are a lot of E.Asian pupils the standard should be good.

That said, grade 5 and 6 average for 9 and 11 year olds.

The reason people are sceptical is because a bursary of 75 percent for a non academic bursary is huge for a joint income of 130k.

@Wavymess

they don’t even have a school orchestra!

Is the most MN thing I’ve ever read.

The fact that you think it could/should have one, suggests it’s a thousand times better than any school I’ve ever attended

Your kids will be ok either way, they won’t become rude or lazy or fail their exams just because of their school, when their mum obviously wants the best for them

Yes, but schools can't currently run proper, full orchestras whilst in these wretched year-group bubbles!

@TatianaBis

How is grade 5 average for a 9 year old? I didn’t start learning until I was 9 and finished the grades off. I don’t know many that started before junior age to be honest!