To want to give my children a private education?

[NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]

Really need some input to try and persuade my husband!
My three are all quite bright academically and they are all pretty good with music too. Youngest (9) is very sporty as well.

We’ve recently applied for scholarships and bursaries at a local private school and my husband is still very much on the fence about it all.

The two girls (13, 12) have been offered a total of 70% and 75% discount with scholarships and bursaries and the youngest has been offered a total of 55%

I know that my eldest would do well in state school regardless but I think the younger two would absolutely flourish with the smaller class sizes and the sporting facilities on offer.

My husband thinks we’d be better off putting the £15-£20k per year in our pension pots. I’m not currently working but I’m looking for a full time job from September. I’m a teacher so my salary would cover the fees and my mother in law has also offered to contribute £3-£4K a year towards it. His salary is plenty for us to live on comfortably.

DH would like us to sit down with a list of pros and cons for them to attend this school and I’m hoping that mumsnet can help with a list of pros!

@NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom LOVE your username! “How cold my toes, tiddly pom, how cold my toes, tiddly pom, are growing!”

In addition to mulling the Hums of Pooh, I did want to ask if you’ve raised the possibility/likelihood of DC2 and 3 having SEN with the school? Only asking because we moved our two from state to private and DS1 has ASD, ADHD and an assortment of compelling extras. He is now at a special school, where he’s thriving, but he spent 3 years at the prep with his younger brother. We were completely up front with the school (we had to be - he’s had an EHCP since he was 4 years old and also had 1:1 support) but some other parents with children with (less obvious/severe) SEN were not. Things that we and other parents with children with SEN found were:

• school was more expensive for us. Eventually we got our LA to pay for DS’s support (this is unusual) but other parents were paying themselves for extra support, be that full-time or part-time 1:1 or small(er) group sessions
• other parents didn’t feel afraid to voice their opinions and would complain to the school about pupils’ behaviour, regardless of SEN. A friend of mine was told to either pay for 1:1 support for her ‘spirited’ son or leave the school, partly as a result of pressure from other parents (I know this sounds awful - it certainly was! But probably not that uncommon unfortunately).
• we knew of several pupils ‘managed out’, seemingly due to their SEN. I suspect DS would have been one of them if his place at his special school hadn’t come along at the right time.

I’m not trying to suggest that your DC have behavioural issues, but I did want to check that you’re aware that any type of SEN at a private school can and often does result in a larger school bill. This school sold us the small classes and the gloss and the amazing facilities, and it was the right place at the right time, but we knew in advance about the extra costs involved for us. I know of others - one of whom is a good friend - who had no idea that they would be billed extra for every additional something that their child needed.

If you can then send your children to private school there is a big difference.

If the children are clever or good at music or sport then try for a scholarship first then bursary.

@Bettyboopawoop

If the children are clever or good at music or sport then try for a scholarship first then bursary.

Have you read the OP?

@Bertiebiscuit

Private schools are an English evil and a cowards way of buying privilege YABU

Oh bollocks, they're not. Most parents go private because the local schools are below par or don't suit their children; if they weren't, they wouldn't.

There are private schools in other countries too.

I meant that in my area if you earn over 80k then you won’t be eligible for bursary support. 70-80k you might get a 5-10% discount and so on on a sliding scale all the way to 100% Bursary.

Ok thanks I thought so. I was a bit thrown by op and other high salaries that seem over this. Around £130k for op I think in total - if they don’t change bursary with ft job.

I know each school is different though

I really hate this attitude of “if they’re bright they’ll do well anywhere”! I was the bright kid at the dodgy comp where academic achievement was ridiculed rather than encouraged. I couldn’t hack the bullying, my self esteem was round my ankles, and I ended up dropping out at 15 to have a baby.
I think if you have this opportunity for your children you should take it.

@ColdTattyWaitingForSummer
Totally relate to your post. It was only when I moved to sixth form college & realised it was fine to enjoy being academic, that I realised how downtrodden I’d been during high school. I used to deliberately do badly in tests to not draw attention to myself etc. Sad state of affairs.

Sad... very sad... to endorse this.

@mariabwebster

Sad... very sad... to endorse this.

To endorse what?

@mariabwebster
If that was aimed at me, I’m just sharing my experience. You can disagree with private education & still acknowledge failures in the state education system. The OP has the right to hear from people with a wide range of experiences. Yours is equally valid, but please try not to be so dismissive of other people’s perspective.

Been to 4 separate private schools growing up. 3 of them were international schools outside the UK (my dm was instant I was fluent in English which is why she made that choice) and one was a bilingual boarding school.

Some benefits are

• the smaller class sizes (suited me better as I am painfully shy and even in a smaller class size of 15-20 students it did take me years to open up a little).

• there was maybe a larger percentage of kids that did value education and clearly came from middle class homes that valued it.

• on an average depending on the class the behaviour was also more polished and less intimidating, less disruptive of the lessons if that makes any sense.

• the field trips I went on and the after school activities that were provided by the schools would have been unusual in a state school or at least certainly in my home country

• due to the smaller school size I did also have a much closer relationship to my teachers then I might have otherwise had

• for certaim students that were going to very special universities the school was very experienced in the interview process and prepared these students for 6 months before the interview

However there are certain downsides

• no local friends so holidays could be very boring

• in spite of the smaller class size none of my teachers picked up on my dyslexia (this could be due to me having gone to international school so it it was never flagged up that I had the same spelling issues in both languages). Just pointing out that you are not necessarily getting better teachers

• it did mean a more limited selection of friendship groups.

Not my intention to be dismissive. I’m sure you’ll agree, thus is a topic which brings out passion and debate all round.
I’m expressing my heartfelt position as I’ve seen over and over just how divisive private education can be in society.
There may be, I don’t deny, some superficial looking benefits. But they don’t help anyone really.
Sorry if you don’t like my views , but I will continue to express them without fear.

If a thread interests me I read all of it. I have a special interest in education having had a crappy 1970s comp as my alma mater post a change in family circumstances. I think you have a high family income op but you also have three children. I have two. My son was born whilst I was a ceo of a wealthy company. My salary was over £100k and the year he was born I more than doubled that. It was a no brainer to put him into a private school in our smart market town from age 2 1/2. Tbh a large portion of the fee was paid through the nursery allowance and my mother paid the rest (she did this in recompense for not sending me to the same famous school as my brother). I didn't need her help but she liked to pick him up etc. I was overseas. He thrived and still has friends from those school days. We continued with his private education into prep school( at another school as the first one closed due to falling numbers) , others have mentioned this so be very aware of finances and look up their data at Companies House. When we reached the financial crash of 2008/2009 5 families removed their children from the school. Our son beggrd us not to do the same. He was 30 at 10 and was already a protégé. Funnily enough we didn't receive a bursary as all their funds were taken by a large family of high achievers and the children of two titled families! In 2009 we lost a huge amount of money and had to sell our home. We used the money to keep our now two children at the school. Huge mistake. The school only offered us a terms fees free. That was it. Even our old cars were valued! They put the dogs on us for their terms notice.
We had no choice but to send him to the local 'outstanding' academy. My job had been made redundant. He had been offered a full scholarship to the local public school but needed to stay in the state school until 13.He hated us at first for our reduced circumstances but surprisingly at 13 he turned down his £45k scholarship as he thought the deputy head was arrogant and rude.
He had fallen in with a top set of chaps whose parents were from the professions. They are to this day a fabulous group of young men. At 16 he was now a GB competitor and the public school came a calling. I might add he is also academically bright. Due to a late paperwork completion on our part he missed busarial funding, so I agree with others that dates are important. His scholarship was still there but he didn't want us to use the last of our savings. He stuck with the state school and became head boy the following year. He completed his degree at a top twenty University (he turned down Oxford for racial reasons) and has recently joined the CS. He has a big salary for a graduate and moves to his own flat tomorrow. I am giving him the £20k he would have had for 6th form towards his deposit. After living in rented houses he wanted secruity. He sees his school years as very happy. He loved his prep school and equally his state secondary. Our daughter has been a very different story. She is four years younger than her brother and her whole school journey has been torture for her. She went to the same prep school but had horrendous bullying at the outstanding academy. They never helped us and effectively 'off rolled' her. We thought we had found the answer at a very famous boarding school. She was assessed as having a huge IQ. She was offered a simlar level of scholarship to you DC. What we didn't realise was that she had a hidden communication difficulty. This became apparent as she was expected to give tours as an award holder and she couldn't do it. Her previous school had suggested ASD when her behaviour deteriated. Academies like the extra finance sen brings as do private schools. The pressure on our daughter brought a mental health crisis and I was constantly at the school. Other parents were not helpful. I later found out the biggest bully there was a racist head of year. She told me she didn't see why my daughter had her scholarship as she wasn't good at science (later proved to be total rot). We moved her to a local comp that required improvement. It saved her. She had the happiest two years of her teenage life so far. We are now in a position (through good pensions!) to send her for a final pre u year to an independent school. She has refused. She will be going to a mix income/background college that funnily enough offers criminology that none of the private schools do. For our daughter with SEN it was about the kindness, willingness to help her and a good mix of people. She has friends from all her schools rich and poor. Some of their parents are a bit rough /entitled but as they get older I don't socialise with them! I think only you can decide if you wish to reduce your other outgoings to afford private education. My DH isn't a fan and being BAME found some teachers /"parents wanting. However being from the Midlands he went to a grammar school. I did not. Good luck.

@ColdTattyWaitingForSummer

I really hate this attitude of “if they’re bright they’ll do well anywhere”! I was the bright kid at the dodgy comp where academic achievement was ridiculed rather than encouraged. I couldn’t hack the bullying, my self esteem was round my ankles, and I ended up dropping out at 15 to have a baby. I think if you have this opportunity for your children you should take it.

I'm so sorry that you had such an awful time at school. My brothers were both badly bullied at school (cigarette burns on arms they kept covered up so only found out about them when they'd grown up) and left as soon as they could. Both much cleverer than me but their whole lives were changed because of bullying. I know people can also be bullied at private schools but smaller classes and fewer children for each counsellor to keep an eye on must help.

Many pros. One I believe in (yes, it’s a generalisation and yes there will be exceptions but I’m talking from my own experience) is that whenever I have had interns working in my business (I’ve had a few!) the ones who went to private school have more confidence and take more initiative. For that reason I find them more employable. I will be sending my children to private school and went myself and truly believe that the life/social skills you gain are important.

Purplesunflowers.... my reply wasn’t aimed at you!! I can’t find the thing I was responding to, I hust pressed reply to something... I’m not a regular user of this site. Your personal experience, I surely have empathy for. It sounds hard and makes sense, what you say.
My views are not about belittling personal experiences.
Thanks for sharing.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

The messaging about the bursaries doesn't add up. Private school bursaries just are not handed out to people on incomes like yours with buy to let property! And dont believe the rubbish about not reassessing it. That's to reel you in knowing once you are there, you will scrape together every penny to keep them there

They absolutely are handed out to 2 income families with buy to lets - as we are in that boat and have been awarded bursaries for 2 of our children (at 40% and 35%).

They are means tested and although we earn around 100k a year and have numerous buy to lets, no way could we afford 2 x 23k of fees a year.

@rossclare I’m so glad you’ve said this as so many people on this thread have totally not believed me or thought that I must have not declared everything to the bursary company!

Also, re the bursary issue, it is worth noting that in this school, more than half of the pupils are supported by bursaries so it’s not really unusual.

[quote NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]@rossclare I’m so glad you’ve said this as so many people on this thread have totally not believed me or thought that I must have not declared everything to the bursary company![/quote]
There is a total misconception that bursaries and schlarships are only for low income families. Scholarships are often not means tested, and bursaries are mean tested and we've found they've been very thorough, going through our finances - we couldn't have hidden anything, even if we'd wanted to!
Also, please don't worry about the reassessing. DD1 has been at her school for 4 years and they only reassessed our finances when we applied for assistance for DD2.
I've been totally open about our financial assistance and i haven't encountered one bit of snobbery. Everyone hands down and sells off their old uniform and sports kit and all the parents still moan about the cost of the school trips. All the parents i've met are friendly and inclusive.
It's been the best thing that we could do for our children and we 'justify' the cost by seeing it as giving our children their inheritance early. DD1 was really happy at her state primary, but she was bright and being held back (it was her teacher who quietly suggested we put her forward for a scholarship). The opportunities (paid and unpaid) are brilliant, a great drama dept with a couple of productions a year. And genuinely caring and lovely staff.

It's changed our daughter's future - and ours!!!

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do xx

I have no experience of private school. All I can add is that I’ve been surprised at the number of disruptive children there are at my child’s secondary school. Big school, not a bad school but lots of children and frequent disruption. If I had the money i’d pay just for the smaller classes and got to be a better learning environment.

@NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom

Also, re the bursary issue, it is worth noting that in this school, more than half of the pupils are supported by bursaries so it’s not really unusual.

You would be wise to get hold of as much financial information as you possibly can via Companies' House.

Some very prestigious schools fund bursaries etc from endowments or from deep historic investments. A school that is not in this category but where over 50% are paying highly reduced fees possibly indicates an establishment that for some reason is convincing less than half of the customers to pay full price for its product, while deeply discounting the same product for others... a situation that is unlikely to be sustainable UNLESS there are significant cost savings being made (a local independent, for example, in a rather similar position, replaced half the teachers in each year group with cheaper unqualified teachers, requiring the remaining qualified teachers to plan for both themselves and their unqualified partners)

@mariabwebster
Thank you for your kind reply & my apologies for mistakenly taking your previous comment personally!