To want to give my children a private education?

[NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]

Really need some input to try and persuade my husband!
My three are all quite bright academically and they are all pretty good with music too. Youngest (9) is very sporty as well.

We’ve recently applied for scholarships and bursaries at a local private school and my husband is still very much on the fence about it all.

The two girls (13, 12) have been offered a total of 70% and 75% discount with scholarships and bursaries and the youngest has been offered a total of 55%

I know that my eldest would do well in state school regardless but I think the younger two would absolutely flourish with the smaller class sizes and the sporting facilities on offer.

My husband thinks we’d be better off putting the £15-£20k per year in our pension pots. I’m not currently working but I’m looking for a full time job from September. I’m a teacher so my salary would cover the fees and my mother in law has also offered to contribute £3-£4K a year towards it. His salary is plenty for us to live on comfortably.

DH would like us to sit down with a list of pros and cons for them to attend this school and I’m hoping that mumsnet can help with a list of pros!

I am also interested in those who see 'confidence' as a good thing.

In moderation, of course. A quiet conviction of one's own views and ability, coupled with the humility to take account of the views and needs of others, is obviously an excellent thing.

The type of confidence that tips over into arrogance / entitlement and rides roughshod over others beneath a thin veneer of conventional 'manners'...not so much, and is definitely rude, not mannerly.

Never borrowed any money when we got married and going forward we didn't buy until we'd saved up for it. See fees were a different kettle of fish. Paid them on an overdraft!!! Best money I have ever spent. My kids (especially my extremely talented oldest) didn't perhaps use all extra goodies fee paying schools offered. Unfortunately fee paying schools offer extras which state schools don't. However, a good state school is very much on par. My three were at state school until the headmaster told they didn't teach tables as it was a struggle for some pupils....and my son who was an excellent reader could not move on any faster than the whole class. I am sure it is different now but... If had those choices again I would make the same choices. However, if our local school would have been a good school I would have stuck with it.

Private school all the way. It’s not about the education. It’s about the network & how it’s a better platform to launch your children off. I went to state school.....I’ve done well, but it would’ve been much easier, faster & less of a fight if I’d gone to private school.

My husband is went to private school. It’s a mentality. It’s worth it, especially since they’ve been given a scholarship.

I think it comes down to 2 basic things:
1)Where do you see your children being happiest (and it may well not be same answer for all of them)
2)the quality of the state options and private options open to you. Look at the reviews very carefully. There are bog-standard independents and outstanding state schools, and vice versa. "Independent" does certainly not always mean "very good." Read the Ofsted/ ISI reviews (the latter not always being entirely objective as their inspectors are often - yup - other Independent school Heads...) If the schools are over-subscribed (in either sector) that's a useful barometer.
I myself had a private at primary level and grammar school (state) at secondary, and got a 2:1 from a Russell Group uni. I'm grateful for both experiences that set me up both academically and for life.

If the schools are over-subscribed (in either sector) that's a useful barometer.

Yes, I would say that the over-generous bursary for 3 able children from a very 'suitable' family, especially for a school known for its 'lovely family feel' is in fact on its financial uppers, is having to admit everyone, and is hoping that this family will the 'poster children' who thy can use on publicity material to entice further families of the same type......

Just been reading back through the OPs responses and this jumped out at me.

the bursary was given as a package deal. If one loses it they’d all lose it

The alarm bells of future sibling resentment are ringing so loudly after reading this sentence. Can you imagine being the child who lost the bursery.

Not only does that mean you now have to leave this school that's been put to you as an amazing once in a lifetime opportunity. You're also now responsible for your siblings also moving, leaving their friends and losing the chance to access this amazing opportunity.

In all honesty putting aside all questions of finances, burersy entitlement and anything else the risk of one child being potentially blamed by their siblings forever would be enough to stop me sending any of them.

But that’s the kind of confidence that I’m talking about.
My 10 year old is not arrogant.
But she is sure of herself, her abilities, her worth and her place in the world. She knows she has value.
She is also partly being given the skills so that she can fake it til she makes it,
I was privately educated.
I would not say that I was over confident BUT I knew how to go into a room full of strangers and make it look like I was.
This (in my opinion) is almost as good.

@Kangaroobill
Same here - child got caught at our comp dealing weed and was excluded (or could have stayed but in isolation) the only place that would have him without disciplinary measures was a fee paying school who were delighted to add him to the coffers! We found that a few parents we knew who had a very difficult lock down with their children playing them up dug deep and found the money for fee paying to help with discipline. Our local non selective has a very odd atmosphere - it scoops up children who can’t cope in the comp, grammar or selective fee paying, so everyone is there ‘for a reason’ and it makes for a very odd atmosphere. It is a good supportive environment but such a high percentage of children have minor needs that my friend found her daughter didn’t settle socially and the friendship groups were difficult.

Why don’t you just shoot the kids you mention and write then off totally??!!!
🤬
Manners do not, as we are commonly convinced to believe, always represent the best of humanity??!!

Yes, if you are all about putting on an act

State school oiks can be confident and comfortable

@Smartiepants79
You have just described my state educated DD. It’s because we are educated to a high level, we eat meals together and debate things, we take her to places, she has been to see both of us in our interesting work places, she has books, she knows her opinion is valued, she has high achieving (state educated) grandparents who talk to her. Sorry, it has more to do with background not schooling.

@mylifestory I totally disagree. I went to a state comp. Amongst my mates who also went to state comps, we have an investment banker, a city lawyer, a paediatric consultant, a GP and a published author. A bright child with supportive parents can succeed anywhere.

A big factor for me would be what the local state schools were like. Where we use to live in London I would have absolutely chosen a private school if we’d be able to afford it, however where we are now I’m quite happy with the local state school. The schools where we were in London were so rough we heard of parents fighting in the playground! The state school they’re in now provides an excellent education while giving them a bit more balance than I imagine a private school would. There’s a mix of children, some nicer than others and our children gravitate towards the nicer kids that they have more in common with. I think this gives them more of a balanced outlook as when they go out into the real world they will have to deal with a variety of different types of people, not just well mannered/rich!

Also please think very carefully about your pension/retirement. I work in this area and for so many it’s an afterthought. You potentially have 30+ years where you won’t be working, that’s a long time and the bills still have to be paid! Plus it is nice if you can still afford to keep living the lifestyle you’ve become accustomed to during your working life!

Surviving out in the real world is all about putting on an act to some extent.
My ability to fake a confidence I didn’t always feel made it possible (especially professionally) to get my foot in the door and show my true self and what I was capable of.
Very few people are able to be their true selves at all times.

You got it.... in a nutshell!!🙏🏻

So???

You should go for it. Myself and siblings were all privately educated.

Private school gives so much more than just a good education. Firstly it gives you much more opportunity as usually you meet people who’s parents tend to have better jobs/own their own businesses so you have better connections for the future. Very rarely are there kids that are being disruptive/violent/rude in the class which makes it a much more pleasant learning environment. I also believe that kids are taught more to think out of the box and to think for yourself rather than ‘this is what’s being taught and that’s it’ there’s more freedom for discussion etc because classes are smaller which in turn teaches confidence. Private school definitely produces more well rounded students.

Also because school in general is smaller everyone knows everyone and it’s much less cliquey. However this also means rumours and stuff like that can run rife and everyone knows everyone’s business.

If you can afford it, definitely do it. I had a very bright son (now 25) who would have benefited very much from such a luxury but never got the opportunity. It certainly puts you head and shoulders above the rest and who doesn't want the best for their kids?

It sounds as though it might be a significant factor what the children are saying they want to do. I can't see your OH discounting a very strong response on their part in favour of going .

In an ideal world, and I would imagine some families and communities have a tradition of doing this, you would say to the children that you are making sacrifices for them now, but, in future, if they earn big salaries, over £100k per year, you'd like them to be prepared to help their old parents. To me, that would be the most risk-free plan, if it could work.

Of course some bright children will do well anywhere.
And of course background matters.
I will say though that I have seen several very bright kids that I have taught in primary not reach their potential (in an academic sense) after 5 years at a very average comprehensive.
My parents are very well educated, we ate together and talked etc, was taken to the theatre, ballet, museums, abroad etc......
I still believe that my school was fundamental in making me who I am.

You have just described my state educated DD. It’s because we are educated to a high level, we eat meals together and debate things, we take her to places, she has been to see both of us in our interesting work places, she has books, she knows her opinion is valued, she has high achieving (state educated) grandparents who talk to her. Sorry, it has more to do with background not schooling.

Same here. But I've taught at private schools. There are more of those confident kids there. Being surrounded by other kids like that reinforces those norms. My teens are pretty confident. But at their (normal, decent state comp), engaging teachers in conversation like an adult, or talking about highbrow stuff will make you stick out like a sore thumb. Very bright, confident, articulate kids learn to moderate in order to fit in. If my dd had gone to the outstanding girls' private school I used to teach at, I think she'd actually present quite differently than she does now, which gives me quite mixed feelings...

You can’t do that diverse Jesus

If you believe in every man/ woman for himself... then yes!
Thankfully, there are still some of us who value human life above greed and competition only

My child goes to private school with a scholarship and a 90% bursary, we earn 40k a year. Shocked you’ve got that much of a bursary earning that much, also shocked at people saying you wouldn’t be able to afford it earning 130k a year, that’s a huge amount, but I suppose it depends on outgoings.