To want to give my children a private education?

[NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]

Really need some input to try and persuade my husband!
My three are all quite bright academically and they are all pretty good with music too. Youngest (9) is very sporty as well.

We’ve recently applied for scholarships and bursaries at a local private school and my husband is still very much on the fence about it all.

The two girls (13, 12) have been offered a total of 70% and 75% discount with scholarships and bursaries and the youngest has been offered a total of 55%

I know that my eldest would do well in state school regardless but I think the younger two would absolutely flourish with the smaller class sizes and the sporting facilities on offer.

My husband thinks we’d be better off putting the £15-£20k per year in our pension pots. I’m not currently working but I’m looking for a full time job from September. I’m a teacher so my salary would cover the fees and my mother in law has also offered to contribute £3-£4K a year towards it. His salary is plenty for us to live on comfortably.

DH would like us to sit down with a list of pros and cons for them to attend this school and I’m hoping that mumsnet can help with a list of pros!

I simply don’t understand why these bursaries/fee reductions are going to well-off people.

Surely there’s not much left over for those who actually don’t have much. Or, luckily, they never find out about financial assistance so that it is grabbed by people like the OP...

@Retired65I’ve looked and we just can’t afford it without basically selling the house to release equity. We only live in a semi so nothing grand but we just can’t afford the fees on the bursaries offered at the local private school according to their website. Unless there are secret ones they don’t publish.

@Mrssheppard18 of course it's a generalization, there are always exceptions, but it is my experience that the children in my dds schools have shown better manners over the years than those in my, niece's, nephews's, and close friends state schools🤷🏽‍♀️

My experience of private, is do it if you can afford it.

I loved my Son’s private schools. He liked one, not the other. You’re paying for better admin, better communication, better facilities and better discipline. It’s not an automatic ticket to higher grades. They bring out the best in each child and give each child a core self-belief which doesn’t seem to happen in State school (well, not the one I went to or the ones I’ve worked in).

My son is in state school for 6th form and he loves that more and it’s free. 😂 Less homework, less uniform, less discipline. He’s happier there than he has been anywhere else and on paper, the school is not great. But I know he’ll do as well there as he would in a private school as he’s old enough for me to gauge what he’s likely to achieve on his own terms too.

Good luck making those choices. Private education has a way of seducing parents. Never go to an open day unless you’re serious about spending the cash.

I simply don’t understand why these bursaries/fee reductions are going to well-off people

I can't comprehend it.Salaries of 90k and property and bursaries.

I was offered a bursary for my eldest child, but it was partly dependent on her continuing to score highly in exams. Whilst I was sure she would, I decided that the pressure on her was unfair.
The cost of extra curricular Music and dance lessons was minimal compared with the fees and enabled her to play in an orchestra and take part in shows. She did really well at the local school and we could save towards her time at Uni.

@BananaSplitX

Private. Like it or not, on average privately educated children do much better in life. On average of course, there are exceptions on both sides. As parents, we want to give our children the best chance in life. And giving them the best education possible is the best we can do. That’s our investment into our children’s future. My husband and I had exactly the same discussion some months ago. He said we should put the money into paying off our mortgage. Then slowly he changed his mind. We’ll pay off the mortgage a little bit later but investing in our children is the right choice for us. We have now moved our daughter from state to private. Listen to your gut and good luck.

I don’t buy that unless you went to one of the top public schools it doesn’t make a difference at all. The States in my area actually have better results than a lot of the Independents. I can’t remember the name of it but this year the school with the highest number of Oxbridge offers is in the East End. In my area state 6th forms have in average 10 Oxbridge offers where some of the local Indies have none.

@IrmaFayLear

I simply don’t understand why these bursaries/fee reductions are going to well-off people.

Surely there’s not much left over for those who actually don’t have much. Or, luckily, they never find out about financial assistance so that it is grabbed by people like the OP...

I don't get it either. How does this justify charitable status? I know not all private schools are charities bu the way, but it's an oft petites justification for their existence

@mariabwebster

Private education destroys more than it gives

Time for me to recommend a good book: Engines of Privilege- Britain's Private School Problem. Very interesting, well sourced and accredited.

@Ariannah

YANBU. The main benefit is that the “problem” kids from bad families get filtered out by inability to pay, and those who are disruptive are very quickly removed. It creates a much nicer environment for the kids who actually want to learn.

You haven’t been to some of my local Indies with the new money, z list celebs and minor footballers to come up with that assumption 🤣

Also, a friend with a DD at private experienced horrendous nepotism, the kids of the teachers and donors were guaranteed sports colours every year, chosen for every production, every event whilst friend's daughter was ostracised by her peers for being comparatively much worse off. The car park on parent's evening was like a supercar showroom, seriously.

My dd has actually learnt quite a lot from being educated alongside "problem kids from bad families. Like empathy, compassion, not being judgmental.

I actually value this aspect of her education every bit as much as I value her string of perfect grades. She is a better person for it.

@Ariannah

YANBU. The main benefit is that the “problem” kids from bad families get filtered out by inability to pay, and those who are disruptive are very quickly removed. It creates a much nicer environment for the kids who actually want to learn.

The only disruptive child from my DD’s class moved to private school at Easter, it’s been bliss for her since.

And i disagree with the mental health aspect as mentioned above. Our local outstanding state secondary has about 15 kids referred to mental health each week. I've been on a tour which scared the hell out of me. Bt they get about 10 offers from oxbridge each year. Incidentally the small annual intake they have from private primaries get put into a different stream which is accelerated throughout their time there and is apparently the only ones they bother about. These will be the ones getting the Oxbridge offers and really fails in the analysis of top unis being seen to be taking those less fortunate.

Please, wherever you decide your children are educated, don’t pressure them with higher grades. Don’t tell them the sacrifices you’re making to educate your children. This pressured behaviour from parents keeps the psychological professionals busy.

Do both. Top State schools in all London boroughs and Counties. Get great results and rounded education. Academic kids will do fine. Plenty of middling independent schools
It's no guarantee. Re music and drama the top conservatoires and theatre schools got Saturday schools, holiday courses and online one to one tuition. See Guildhall School of Music and Drama.

@purpleboy wow! Snobby much? Both my sons attend state schools and have very good manners and social skills because that’s my job as a parent. My friend has a daughter at a private school and she is a brat! Manners come from parents not schools!

@Ariannah

YANBU. The main benefit is that the “problem” kids from bad families get filtered out by inability to pay, and those who are disruptive are very quickly removed. It creates a much nicer environment for the kids who actually want to learn.

Are you saying that bad families are always poor families? I never stalk but have just read some of you other posts and wow!

We moved our child to a private school when he was in year three. The difference has been worth the money.

• Smaller class sizes
• One to one or small group additional help where the teacher identifies a specific need
• Brilliant sports facilities
• less bullying, better behaviour
• really good school trips
• jobs around school that the kids get to do (library, work on reception etc)
• better communication from the school (teachers call same day to discuss your child of needed, we have teachers email addresses)
• proper art room with really good art lessons
• music lessons, choir, samba band, proper music rooms
• cooking lessons with a trained chef in very small groups
• amazing wrap around and holiday care
• good school dinners and taught manners at lunch
• a real pride in the school and the kids really work as a team

The change in my child’s confidence after six months was obvious to us and anyone that visited.

It is absolutely critical to make a school by school, not sector by sector, comparison.

I live in an area where 1 of the private schools is just about better educationally than what is available in the state sector.

The other 4 are not, though the worst of them is very slightly better educationally than the very worst of the state sector options.

In terms of extra-curricular, it depends. If your extra-curricular interests are rugby, hockey or equestrianism, then the private schools have better facilities than are available in the community. If they are music, 2 of the 5 are on balance better than the county music service plus in-school provision, 3 are not. If your extra-curricular interests are dance or football, then the community / state provision is massively better.

Destinations are in line with the academic reputation of the schools.

Manners ... well, it depends. Far more influenced by family background than school, tbh.

Stunned that you were able to get such a huge bursary when your husband earns so much - and I live in London too! When we were looking for DD, she got offered a 25% bursary at a time when DH earned about £20k pa and I wasn't earning at all, but I did have some savings that would probably have been enough for the KS3 years. In retrospect, I think her ASD/ADHD would have been picked up by the school and we might have saved both her and us several years of pain. As it was, she was referred for testing by CAHMS, not her state school and that only in 6th form: this means she has missed the boat on funding for damn nearly everything, as SEN adults apparently don't exist and we are now paying much of what we would have had to for a private school. At least we have a hard-won EHCP to pay for the actual (state) school fees where she is now.

Private schools tend to be quicker at spotting anything that stops kids performing to the required standard. That said, their responses can be very different. Good ones would get the tests and provide the extra support very quickly if the funding is made available (it must be said that they aren't likely to do much for free, but the knowledge itself was worth its weight in gold for us), bad ones would say "not performing, find somewhere else". They're businesses and, like any other school, you have to get a feel for how they are pastorally - that applies equally to state (which can be very academic and hard-work-solves-everything ethos, almost as much as private) and private. The right school for your child is the one that takes care of their individual needs. Nothing is right for everyone.

Agree, @Bellisima234 . I live next door to a very expensive prep school. The accents of some of the mums.... I assume they are paying ££££ so their kids don’t speak like they do!!

I would have sent the dcs to Winchester College/Westminster if I had had a lottery win (or if I had been as poor as the OP with only £90k and a miserable few btls) but otherwise I’d have saved my pennies. The dcs’ friends are all reasonably polite and can string a few words together...

I think I would do it as you would be giving them the best start in life, and I imagine that's important to you.

@MrsBadcrumble123 Apologies if that triggered you, you've stated your children have wonderful manners, so clearly I'm not talking about them.

@me4real

I think I would do it as you would be giving them the best start in life, and I imagine that's important to you.

The best start? These children are late Primary / at secondary school.