To want to give my children a private education?

[NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]

Really need some input to try and persuade my husband!
My three are all quite bright academically and they are all pretty good with music too. Youngest (9) is very sporty as well.

We’ve recently applied for scholarships and bursaries at a local private school and my husband is still very much on the fence about it all.

The two girls (13, 12) have been offered a total of 70% and 75% discount with scholarships and bursaries and the youngest has been offered a total of 55%

I know that my eldest would do well in state school regardless but I think the younger two would absolutely flourish with the smaller class sizes and the sporting facilities on offer.

My husband thinks we’d be better off putting the £15-£20k per year in our pension pots. I’m not currently working but I’m looking for a full time job from September. I’m a teacher so my salary would cover the fees and my mother in law has also offered to contribute £3-£4K a year towards it. His salary is plenty for us to live on comfortably.

DH would like us to sit down with a list of pros and cons for them to attend this school and I’m hoping that mumsnet can help with a list of pros!

it’s just that we want confirmation in writing that the offer won’t change when I get a full time job.

I'd be very surprised if they put that in writing. The offer is pretty much guarenteed to change once you get a full time job. It's already surprising that you've been offered such a huge discount, to the point of it looking suspiciously like the school are desperate for bums on seats.

Ah well, if you seriously believe that you have bright neurodiverse kids then it probably is worth going all out to get them somewhere more supportive.

IME comps are rubbish with bright, well behaved ND kids who will get 9 Bs instead of the As and A*s they might have got with the right support. More importantly my ND kids suffered anxiety that wasn’t seen or acted upon.

What will you do if you don't get a full time job in the scale point (and presumably TLR given the combined income figures you gave earlier) you require for September? I did mention the job market being very strange for teaching at the moment earlier in the thread.

What's plan B, as that could be a big if, and that's no reflection on your capability or desirability as an employee btw, I hope you see where I'm coming from.

Are you applying outside the normal process?

Did they sit the exams at a different time?

I don’t know for sure but if you get a job does your bursary allocation change?

@OnTheHillNotOverIt We’ve been trying to get middle one seen by CAMHS for a few years. She’s been referred by the GP three times but they’ve refused because school have never seen any issues. We get the explosive behaviour and anxiety at home, in her safe place. Youngest was branded ‘naughty’ from reception. His teacher’s opening words to me were, “What X really needs is 1:1. In a forest.” As a teacher I’ve made many suggestions to the school to deal with his fidgeting and impulsive behaviour but they’ve fallen on deaf ears. He’s extremely bright and I think gets very frustrated with not being challenged enough. I saw this when we were homeschooling him and he blossomed when I found more challenging work for him.

I’m surprised they are offering bursaries if you are currently a SAHM - round here they would expect both parents to be working, otherwise anyone yine could artificially reduce their outgoings to qualify.

Honestly? If you’re a teacher I’d say you’re not earning enough to comfortably afford it. If it’s affordable for three children it may not actually be a very good school.

Not all private schools are equal. Lots are crap. I would do private for Eton, Winchester or one of the other top “public” schools- but not otherwise. Could you try grammar school instead?

If your nearby comprehensive is good or outstanding I’d go there, and top up with lots of parental involvement/tutoring/extra curricular activities.

Local independents are so often not worth it. I’m with your husband- pensions are critical for our generation as we’re living so long and final salary pensions have mostly gone.

Could you move house if your local comp isn’t that good? It’d still be cheaper than private school.

The other thing to think of is that increasingly unis and top companies look favourably on state school applicants. Something to consider.

I’ve been teaching for 25 years and one of the most noticeable things to me has been how the gap in terms of curriculum and teaching styles bras changed. A lot of state schools have very rigid curriculum and it’s not a good preparation for learning. Those are brilliant bursaries as well so I’d go for it.

Just reading your last post op, I am actually concerned. If fees will make money tight, I actually think the money for fees would be better spent on a private consultant psychiatrist, diagnosis and therapy for your two youngest dc.

DD was at private school and developed anxiety and depression and started to self harm. The underlying condition was ADHD/ADD never noticed at school because so high functioning. She was cutting Od'ing and withholding food. CAMHS didn't want to know. I spent £6k; BUPA covered about another £12k. I'd have hated not to have been able to fund it and help her recover. She's doing very well now. At a top uni, etc., but when the chios were down it was the private mh care not available on the NHS that cracked it. Education is available from the state and it is not nearly as woeful as NHS MH care for children and adolescents.

Private school won't cure their issues. Diagnosis, treatment and interventions may well do so. I'm sorry but with that additional information I think it's a no brainer.

I disagree with @RosesAndHellebores there.

With ASD/ADHD issues I think DC would be better in a medium sized school with small classes & good SEN provision & pastoral care. (As OP has said).

Private psychiatrist isn't always necessary - although it can be useful to get the ball rolling. An educational psychologist would be just as useful - their tests will flag if ASD/ADHD are likely (an ADHD can be diagnosed by them). Then OP can push for referral if necessary.

Equally two of my best friends are NHS psychiatrists - one for children. They both say that the there aren't a huge number of private psychiatrists for children and the NHS have a whole team of different disciplines the child can be referred once assessment is made.

I'm a Governor at a private school so obviously I support the private sector. The reason for posting is that my role incorporates reviewing bursary applications, which we do on an annual basis. I think the OP said that her children's bursaries would be reviewed at key stage changes but do double check the terms and conditions. We ask for an update of parents financial position and any changes in personal circumstances which may have underpinned the original application. Each year, parents express their 'surprise' that we change the terms of the bursary, because for example, their income has doubled or the parent on long term sick leave has recovered and is back at work.

Some schools are struggling at the moment and therefore the timing of the OP's application may have been a factor in that the school wanted income and / or new pupils to boost numbers.....just be careful that in a few years down the line, a review of the bursaries doesn't result in a less generous offer.

My niece has OCD which has meant she has developed eating disorder and anxiety. Her Fee paying school was WOEFUL! Now being homeschooled and then will go to state sixth form.

I am afraid where I live @TatianaBis those referrals post assessment take years. There has been an independent inquiry. Further, it is very hard to actually see a psychiatrist in CAMHS, a mental health nurse holds the keys to the gateway and ime they hear what they want to hear so they can tick their little boxes and cover their variably sized botties. Once the box is ticked they deny anything else was discussed. I had one who wrote to my GP saying the case was closed because the family had declined an intervention. Actually an inappropriate and inaccessible intervention was offered and we asked for an alternative which the PMHW refused to discuss as did the unit manager. It was equally made harder because neither gp nor CAMHS would help with a private referral for a lay person.

Surrey

I think you are obviously on a different page here from your DH.This is a big commitment you are taking on .Is his job secure? Are you going to be able to return to Teaching after a break, and know that your wages are needed rather than for extras and so on. This needs careful thought and as above PP says surely Bursaries are for those on a low income?

@dottiedodah He’s been at his current job for the last 20 years so I’d say he’s pretty secure (as much as anyone could be). I’ve only had a 6 month break from teaching, I’m not sure why so many people have assumed I’ve been a stay at home mum for years. My maternity cover contract ended and then we went back into lockdown (I was also shielding but have now had both jabs). I’ve got interviews lined up this week.

I went to private school. I won’t be sending my kids to private school. IMO it’s elitist and I am to this day embarrassed to admit that I went to private school. All my friends did well from state school and as an employer if I had two identical candidates with identical cvs, results etc, one private and one state, I’d go for the state educated candidate every time.

That does sound quite specific to your area @RosesAndHellebores - I think services can be a bit of a post code lottery. But I don’t dispute there’s a lot of pressure on CAMHS services.

Either way, ADHD does not have to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist, it can be be done by a clinical psychologist. Equally ASD can be diagnosed by a paediatrician (possibly a clinical psychologist too with relevant training and experience - IDK).

I take your point about who can do the diagnosing @TatianaBis but as a lay person it's a minefield to decipher without professional, clinical advice which the NHS refuses to give. The priority for dd was to deal with her anxiety and depression which was leading to self harm and the ADHD was diagnosed vicariously arising from that. She wouldn't have got to the point of being able to explain what was wrong until the comorbidities had been treated - in her case with both drug and talking therapies.

[quote NobodyKnowsTiddlyPom]@WombatChocolate We DO have the scholarship and bursary offer in writing - it’s just that we want confirmation in writing that the offer won’t change when I get a full time job. It was made very clear to the school and bursary company that the only way that we could afford to pay any sort of fees is if I was working full time as a teacher. We have both properties on interest only mortgages so the other reason we bought the buy to let one this year was as a sort of endowment/repayment vehicle for paying off the mortgage on our home at the end of the term. So we don’t have loads of equity and we are not currently repaying either mortgage.
My youngest two, I have long suspected additional needs - ADHD for my youngest and ASD for my middle daughter. This school is very well regarded for its SEN support and pastoral excellence. The much smaller class sizes will benefit them both so much.[/quote]
The SEN support is a massive red flag for me. I have an SEN child and these schools will often sell you the world and then decide that they cannot meet needs. There is far more than just a small class needed. Private schools are within their rights to manage a child out or make you pay for 1 to 1 provision which can double fees. I know this from bitter experience. I would also be looking very carefully at the schools accounts as it doesn’t sit right with me that they are offering bursaries to kids with suspected SEN and parents with assets like yours. It stinks of desperation to get arses on seats to keep afloat.

If your kids have SEN pay the money for the best Ed Psych that you can afford, apply for EHCP’s using sen lawyers to help you if necessary then name the best school in the area for your kids. We went down this route and money far better spent than in a private school. Also bear in mind in private they could get a new head at any time and the culture could completely change and they msy not be as tolerant of SEN.

@Bellisima234 I agree here that caution is needed.
At DC's slightly crap (to be blunt!) comp special needs (particularly when there were articulate mc parents behind them) got masses of support. Quite right too - tho it used to piss me off as the parent of two very able high flyers who just got on with things. I have learned a bit more about neurodiversity now so am not so hardline/insensitive! But oh my the extra time and and staff and special pencils and whatever that were funded!
Is your state provision so bad OP? Have you discussed your children's' additional needs with either or both schools?

Bellisima234 you are spot on in everything you say. I just viewed a private school for one of my neurotypical children, the head was very clear that children will be and are managed out. He didn't know I have another child with SEN.

TatianaBis to get a diagnosis that would be good enough for an EHCP there is a very specific process of assessment, not just a paed diagnosing. The wrong diagnosis or the right diagnosis with the wrong recommendations can cause even more problems. Waiting lists for a full diagnosis through the NHS are often around 2 years all over the country.

Massive drip feed there. You should concentrate on getting your kids diagnosed and treated privately rather than pushing them into private school places that you can’t afford. I have a child with ASD at independent school and I pay for a lot of extras including Ed psych, OT, private psychiatrist and an autism educational consultant on top of school fees. We have an income double yours and still find it a struggle for a single child. I don’t think this school is the answer you are looking for OP and it sounds like it would put a strain on your marriage. You need to accept your children for who they are and not think that private education will be some sort of miracle for your family.

I would also tread very carefully if you're looking for SEN support. I've got three friends who decided in the last couple of. years on small, nurturing private environments for their bright&SEN children, thinking they would be more likely to thrive in a school which promised lots of individual attention and support. All of them pulled their children out in under a year. One because the promised support was woefully lacking. The other two because although the emotional support was good, the school didn't provide nearly enough in terms of academic stimulation.

I am not normally prone to advance searching but I have on this occasion not to troll hunt or stalk but because I thought I recognised the username and I was right.

OP, you’ve only been teaching for a couple of years and I think you are under a misapprehension regarding both the possibility of work and how much you’ll earn.

You won’t be on £40000 as a teacher of about four years.

Paediatricians qualified to diagnose ASD are not some kind of also ran. They often work in a team so you have a paediatric, a psychologist + a speech and language therapist for example.

Whether an EHCP is necessary depends on the child and the SEN provision of the school.

I know ASD/ADHD children within the private sector who have not needed them.