Disagreement with DH over DD staying with boyfriend

[laughinggasssing]

Disagreement with DH tonight over a possible future situation. Who’s BU?
DD has had a boyfriend for a year. They met right before first lockdown and obviously have had longish periods of not seeing each other, but always spoke every day, and are now meeting each other a lot more. She’s 15, year 10, Sept birthday. He’s 15, year 10, Oct birthday. Same school.
He seems very nice. He’s polite and she tells me he’s respectful and doesn’t pressure her to do things she’s not comfortable with. We’ve all met his parents and they’re lovely and his mum and I are on a similar wavelength about parenting. It’s all good.
His parents are American and when travel is allowed they really want to go and see family. Their plan is to go for 5 weeks in summer. Boyfriend and his older brother and sister (19 and 21) don’t want to stay for that long so the plan is that the three of them travel home after 3 weeks and boyfriend stays at home in England with older siblings for 2 weeks.

DD was chatting over dinner tonight and was very excited as she plans to spend lots of time there over the summer and apparently she will also be staying overnight. DH (usually very chilled chap) just told her no way and so now she’s sulking. Personally I feel they’d be a month or 2 away from 16, in a long and committed relationship and (crucially) if they’re going to have sex then they will and they’ll just have sex in the daytime! I’d rather talk to her about consent, make sure she feels safe and not pressured and has birth control if needed. DH seems to think I’m hopelessly lax as “it’s illegal” and it sounds like I’m encouraging it. I’m not delighted, but I’m also pragmatic.
Am I being foolish? DH has just said I’m prioritising my good relationship with DD over parenting her appropriately in this situation and it stings a little....

@TheOneWithTheBigNose

They’ll be having sex regardless if that’s what they choose to do, so banning overnights is pointless.

Wouldn't it be easier for your DD to say no if she's not staying overnight? Not saying he would force himself on her but it becomes more of a 'maybe yes and parents are clearly sanctioning' and takes much more maturity and self definition from her to say a consistent know if she is set up to sleep over, than if she is not.

Of course if they want to have sex, they will regardless... but I do think it makes it easier for DD to hold onto her boundaries if that is what even part of her wants to do.

So not pointless in my book.

I've reread this since this morning & I think that there is openness and there are also boundaries. Discussing your sexual progress with your mother aged 15 doesn't feel that healthy to me.

@luckylavender

I've reread this since this morning & I think that there is openness and there are also boundaries. Discussing your sexual progress with your mother aged 15 doesn't feel that healthy to me.

Really? I think it is wonderful to be able to have someone help navigate your way through. Someone to turn to when you are unsure about any aspect of your life. someone on your side. In your corner. There for you.

Ugh the gender norms being expressed / assumed here are really depressing. Maybe the boyf wants to take things slow? Maybe he’s not interested in “pictures”. Maybe the other girls sending their boyfriends pictures are intimating/ enjoying it. None of these things have much to do with being “nice” boys and girls, or otherwise.

*initiating not intimating.

@luckylavender

I've reread this since this morning & I think that there is openness and there are also boundaries. Discussing your sexual progress with your mother aged 15 doesn't feel that healthy to me.

Need to comment on this. She wasn't discussing his snogging technique (although I'd listen if she wanted to!) Instead things were moving so slowly that she was asking me how to tell if someone liked you romantically vs as a friend. I was and am delighted that we have the kind of relationship where she's comfortable discussing this with me. Long may it continue.

@Bizawit

Ugh the gender norms being expressed / assumed here are really depressing. Maybe the boyf wants to take things slow? Maybe he’s not interested in “pictures”. Maybe the other girls sending their boyfriends pictures are intimating/ enjoying it. None of these things have much to do with being “nice” boys and girls, or otherwise.

I do get what you mean but honestly from what i hear it's ALL horny teenage boys pressurising reluctant teen girls to do more/ send more/ go further than they're comfortable with. It's a gender norm for a reason. From what she's told me none of her friends have enjoyed or initiated this - it's a whole load of over sexualised lads thinking porn is real life and not behaving well. Look at Everyone's Invited. It's not full of boys talking about how sexually rapacious girls took advantage of them and pressurised them.

@luckylavender

Then you have a very Victorian view of things.

It should be normal to be able to openly discuss that side of your life with a trusted and responsible adult, whether that is a parent, aunt, older sibling etc. What shouldnt be the norm is secrecy, embarrassment, remaining silently confused or worried, or sneaking around.

@themalamander - I actually don't. There are details of the relationship which the mother has posted that I don't think she should have been privy to and certainly not shared on an open forum.

My concern wouldn't be the under age sex issue..

If they want to, they are going to do that whether you allow overnights or not, they'll find a way.

I think the problem is that overnights in a home with just young adult supervision, probably parties - it could end up in a situation where she wants to come home at whatever time.. and feels she can't say so, can't leave, can't call you etc etc.

If you have a way around that, if they live close enough, if you talk it through with her, then maybe allowing 1 overnight per week or some similar arrangement may be suitable.

She probably does like the idea of 'playing house' a bit, and she may well find she does NOT like the reality of a house full of young adults being dicks (because lets face it, we all were at 20 ish and I'd been running my own household 3 years by that point!)...

If then you are confident she will ask for help if needed, she will call, leave, etc - a 'some nights a week but not ALL' might give her the chance to dip her toe in that water safely.

If she won't talk that through with you or if she squirms about and you feel she wouldn't ask for help or get herself out of there if things got unpleasant.. then say no to overnights - but things can go unpleasant in the day time too...

@laughgassing well that’s really depressing and says a lot about teenage cultures. Maybe you should focus on challenging some of the (gendered) assumptions behind these dynamics and the very real harm they cause both boys and girls. For example, there will be some boys who will be shy, who may not feel “ready” or comfortable in their sexuality, who are gay, who are less “experienced” or “successful” with girls , and that’s ok/ normal. Similarly there will be girls who are interested in expressing and exploring their sexuality, and shouldn’t be made to feel like that diminishes their value, or they ought to take a more passive/ reactive role in the relationship.

I am not sure what you mean by “it’s a gender norm for a reason” but if you are suggesting boys and girls are that way by nature, I couldn’t agree with you less.
Anyways rant over!
I agree with your take on how to handle the situation with your DD, and I don’t think that’s fair of your DP to say that your relationship is preventing you parenting properly.

We have 2 DD. We did not allow overnight stays by boyfriends until they were 18. However they were free to bring people round to the house pretty much whenever they liked during the day, including when we were not there. I've no doubt they were having sex before 18 but we wanted to make the point that we were not encouraging them to do so. They both accepted this, I don't recall many - if any - of their friends having partners in the house overnight before 18. They are both in their mid 20s now with steady boyfriends in apparently strong relationships so I think we did the right thing.

@luckylavender

What details? That the girl and her boyfriend are taking their time? That's not a shocking detail to reveal to your mum.

You may feel that stiff upper lip, no talk of feelings or sex is normal but its really not the ideal. I'm saying this as a psychologist. It's very healthy for a child to have an open relationship like that with a trusted adult, someone they can talk through all the things they are growing into but havent experienced yet.

@themalamander - I'm sure you know best. Can't be bothered to debate any further. I see you also completely ignored the disclosure of that information on a public forum. That's not a trusted adult.

This is an anonymous forum which, amongst all the less than great comments, usually gives pretty solid advice and insights into issues like this. That can prevent parents making mistakes, or help them find better ways to manage a situation.

Your child might tell you something, and you're not sure how to handle it. You cant go and ask your friends or your own parents, because your child would have to face them knowing that they know. You can turn to something like mumsnet, or call up one of the many helplines to seeing advice and process your own reaction.

I think you and the boyfriends family should agree on an approach but my view is if they want to have sex they will and your time would be much better spent making sure they are responsible and anything they do is fully consensual so making sure they understand boundaries. I would be tempted to suggest an implant or something as well. Regarding DH, would he react like this if it was DS and not DD? I think a lot of fathers think they are being protective but it just screams misogyny to me - she knows her own mind and putting barriers in her way won't stop her it will just make her less likely to be open and honest with you.

I agree with you dh

The moving the relationship to something that is more adult (spending the night together) is something that is very young for a fifteen year old. It’s creates a far more intimate relationship

I also wouldn’t be so keen with the parents being away

She has years to take the relationship and I that level one step at a time (I doubt she will see it that way)

I'm with your DH.

No way.
This is pushing relationships at such a young age to be more important than they actually are. It's usually the girls who suffer from it.

In terms of the singular act, I doubt very much if you will be invited or informed. It will happen when and where they feel like it, but you already know this.

As for everything else, while I feel your DH pain my history is a more extreme version of your's. Is he seriously going to fire the glitter cannon on her 16th birthday as then it will be legal, or will we then have more excuses.

It's not that I don't understand his pain and fear, but he has to let go, sooner not later. It may take some time for his brain to adjust to the new reality.

I’m on the other side of this dilemma now and I took a strict line about sleepovers. My dd is older now and at university and she has since told me it was the right attitude to take (she didn’t think that at the time!) but she said it took a lot of pressure off. It’s a turbulent time in their lives, exams and making decisions about the future. It’s very very unlikely to be a long term committed relationship. Take the harder, stricter line. You won’t regret it - you could very well regret being more lenient.

My parents didn't say anything against me staying at a boyfriend's house (I was 16+.) But I'm pretty sure that if I'd been under 16 there's no way they would've agreed with it. It'd be a dereliction of duty towards an underage child.