To think 'celebrating your curves' is becoming a worrying trend?

[Freesunglasses]

So many of my overweight 'friends' on facebook are joining in the whole "I'm embracing my curves and loving this body, every inch"
The thing is they are Obese, not use a little overyweight but really fat. The more people see and read things like this the more it will become normalised.

Worrying times ahead I think. We're going to be a very fat country in the not too distant future.
I know it's hard to lose weight. I know lockdown has made lots put weight, I'm a little overweight myself but I will never say I'm happy with it because I'm not! I like being thin, I want to be thin.

For the love of God stop normalising and celebrating obesity.

Yes it is basically saying I'm fat and can't be arsed to diet

More likely, 'I'm fat; I've tried and tried to diet, and either haven't succeeded for any length of time, or the side effects have been worse than the weight. I'm exhausted with it all, and am 'celebrating' my body in defiance of those, including myself, who may be quick to condemn or ridicule me'.

People who really just can't be arsed usually can't be arsed to celebrate their curves either. It's those who are body-obsessed who may do so in desperation.

@ddl1 of course they fail, because for a while they stop eating crap following a whatever label diet which means that they have to eat mainly homemade food to avoid this or that macro or whatever, and when they stop and revert to eating the usual crap, they put back the weight. And it is crap and they hook their children on it.

It is the eating culture that is utterly wrong.

As first food, when babies can't even walk, they are given melty puffs (same ingredients as Doritos, corn flour and oil), then baby crisps

Obviously I can only speak for myself and people I know, but mostly babies' first food was baby rice. And wtaf are "baby crisps"?

Well if you go on the weaning board, melty puffs and other savoury snacks including baby crisps (crisps minus salt) are all the rage and highly recommend for great hand-mouth coordination and the perfect finger food without the risk of chocking.
So six months babies will not have touched a broccoli but will happily much on extruded snacks coloured with some veggie powder so you can say vegetables on the label.

@DanielRicciardosSmile an example here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/weaning/4239880-6-month-old-weaning-issues-advice-and-help-needed-please

I’m tired of people spouting this tedious, ignorant rubbish and acting like they’re sharing some great insight.

Your fat shaming isn’t new or revolutionary. People have been doing it for decades. And you know what? People are still fat. Because, amazingly, shame isn’t a tactic which makes people lose weight.

You seem to think that the world is full of people who are only saved from becoming fat by their fear of others judging them. That simply isn’t true. People are fat for an enormous range of reasons - unavoidably sedentary lifestyle, health conditions, lack of time to exercise, poor relationship with food, using food as a reward, food being a source of comfort and / or joy, natural body type, disability etc. None of these are easy to ‘solve’, and endless research shows that dieting doesn’t work. The vast majority of people who lose weight on a diet regain it, because diets don’t change the fundamental factors which made you fat in the first place.

I’m not fat, and do you know why? Because I am blessed with an incredibly fast metabolism which lets me eat huge quantities of unhealthy food without gaining weight. I don’t exercise or watch what I eat, and my BMI is in the middle of the ‘healthy’ range and I look slim. Without my super metabolism, I would definitely be fat because I would otherwise have to change the person I am entirely from one who loves rich, calorific food and hates exercise into one who didn’t mind living on a diet and working out regularly. Why do people act like that’s easy? Fundamentally changing who you are is an impossibility.

So no, ‘celebrating curves’ isn’t a worrying trend. It’s an amazing fight back against the misogynistic insistence that women feel shame for yet another thing that they can’t control. It’s an incredible expression of the fact that everyone is worthy of high self-esteem and self-confidence regardless of what they weigh. It’s a step away from boring, conventional ideas about what constitutes beauty into the exciting possibility that diversity is beauty, and that fat bodies can be beautiful too.

Stop trying to tamp down people’s joy and confidence with your mean-spirited, bullying sneers. Stop trying to use shame as a controlling tactic. Just stop it.

@SonnyWinds If you see an obese person and see "obese" before you see "person" then that's dangerous behaviour that you need to address - and clearly OP does.

I have a facial deformity. I 100% guarantee that if we met in person it's one of the first things you'd notice about me. You'd also notice that I'm unusually short. We have evolved to notice differences. It's an essential ability not a dangerous behaviour. It's really disingenuous to try and guilt people into feeling shit for normal human observational skills.

Especially when the exact opposite is currently true. We no longer notice level 1 obesity. If we meet someone who has a BMI of 30-35, we won't really see that as anything notable. If asked to describe that person afterwards you might say they were a bit overweight, after you'd described their hair, clothing, skin tone, because their weight would be socially quite normal. And that actually is dangerous behaviour leading to serious health issues. When I was obese I hadn't a fucking clue. I knew I was a bit overweight but I had no idea how very unhealthy a level of excess fat I'd reached. I had lost my ability to visually assess myself. Thankfully I eventually stood on a scale and did the maths and the shock of that copped me on. Up until then I would occasionally try modifying my diet to get back to a healthy weight and give up. I tried and failed because it was hard and my attempts were half hearted. Because when I finally did an honest assessment of myself and realised I was seriously hurting myself with poor eating habits, changing became a lot easier.

And the pay-off was worth it. So, so, so beyond worth it. I decided to get to healthy weight so I could avoid future health problems. What I hadn't realised was that I was already having health problems. The lower energy levels, joint pain, especially in my knees, the back pain I'd had for years weren't age or a result of an injury like I'd assumed they were. They were because I was carrying several stones of fat around on weak muscles. Once I lost the weight and started getting fit, strong and flexible I discovered what my body is actually capable of. I'm actually capable of so much. I'm going into middle age as a strong, fit athlete. I could have spent the rest of my life eating more and more processed pastries and pizzas and buying bigger and bigger clothes. Instead I'm achieving amazing things with my body and feeling really, really happy almost all the time.

Objectification at any size isn't progress.
It's the same old misogynistic shite in a slightly bigger wrapper.

We need to stop obsessing over what style of women's body we deem acceptable this year and encourage health at any size.

Trancepants that is so true that we don't notice people being overweight anymore

I'm a Dr so you'd think I might notice but I don't. All my inpatients regularly get weighed and in fact nearly all of them have BMIs over 25 (older people) but they look fine to me. It has to get to about 30 for me to notice. I actually have to remind myself quite often that BMI over 25 is classified as overweight because 25-28 really seems the norm these days.

In actual fact when you look at study data maybe my eyes are not so wrong because adverse health outcomes are mostly at BMI of over 30. There is some health impact of being overweight but mainly it's only when you get into the territory of obesity and that is associated with 4 years less life expectancy on average so surely worth worrying about medically.

I suppose the thing about just being overweight is that if you sustained a BMI in that range over many years then it probably can't be said you are doing your health a lot of harm but if you are continually gaining weight and on the way to obesity then it's helpful to warn you so you can take action before that happens.

I just do wish it could all get uncoupled from aesthetic judgements especially about women. It's men who are more at risk from cardiovascular death from obesity in fact but they are far less judged or celebrated. Largely men's weight is far less a topic of discussion.

@GroggyLegs

Objectification at any size isn't progress. It's the same old misogynistic shite in a slightly bigger wrapper.

We need to stop obsessing over what style of women's body we deem acceptable this year and encourage health at any size.

There is no such thing as health at every size. Health is never guaranteed at any size but many sizes sizes, both too underweight and too overweight, actually cause numerous health problems in an of themselves and contribute significantly to many others while drastically raising the risks of even more. The Health at Every Size movement is the equivalent of a Health at any Amount of Cigarrettes/Vodka movement. You can not have health at every size just like you can't have health at a daily litre of vodka. It's not possible.

I do understand your point of view. But I do think that fostering a spirit of ‘love yourself’ is a good thing.

I’ve been both a size 16 and a size 8. And when I was a size 16, it stopped me doing a lot of things, things that actually would’ve helped me lose weight.

I didn’t want to get in a swimming costume for fear that everyone is looking at my hideous body, I didn’t want to go for a walk because I’d be a huffing mess, I didn’t want to order a salad because oh look at the fat girl eating a salad and I was self conscious during sex because I was nearly fifteen stone and didn’t look like a glamour model.

What I needed was confidence, to go out and do those things. And when you’re fat everything, from wrestling with clothes in front of the mirror to being photographed next to a thin person is demoralising.

So accepting it, normalising it, for me isn’t about saying ‘it’s okay to be fat’ it’s about saying ‘it’s okay to be me and to live my life confidently’ and with that, the weight actually did come off.

So no, I don’t think it’s a bad thing. There will always be someone thinner than me, fatter than me and all the bits in between. But being confident gave me more choices and more opportunities to do something about it.

Yes! @Spandang this exactly 🙌🙌🙌

There is no such thing as health at every size. Health is never guaranteed at any size but many sizes sizes, both too underweight and too overweight, actually cause numerous health problems in an of themselves and contribute significantly to many others while drastically raising the risks of even more. The Health at Every Size movement is the equivalent of a Health at any Amount of Cigarrettes/Vodka movement. You can not have health at every size just like you can't have health at a daily litre of vodka. It's not possible.

There’s a difference between saying ‘being overweight or underweight can cause or exacerbate certain health conditions’ and saying ‘every overweight and underweight person is unhealthy’. The former is true, the latter isn’t. And unless you’re someone’s doctor, you simply can’t make an assessment of their health based on their apparent weight. You could say ‘person A is statistically more likely to have certain health conditions than person B because of their weight’, which is true but pretty meaningless. You can’t say ‘Person A is unhealthy because of their weight’ because you simply don’t know whether that’s true or not.

@MishMashMummy

There is no such thing as health at every size. Health is never guaranteed at any size but many sizes sizes, both too underweight and too overweight, actually cause numerous health problems in an of themselves and contribute significantly to many others while drastically raising the risks of even more. The Health at Every Size movement is the equivalent of a Health at any Amount of Cigarrettes/Vodka movement. You can not have health at every size just like you can't have health at a daily litre of vodka. It's not possible.

There’s a difference between saying ‘being overweight or underweight can cause or exacerbate certain health conditions’ and saying ‘every overweight and underweight person is unhealthy’. The former is true, the latter isn’t. And unless you’re someone’s doctor, you simply can’t make an assessment of their health based on their apparent weight. You could say ‘person A is statistically more likely to have certain health conditions than person B because of their weight’, which is true but pretty meaningless. You can’t say ‘Person A is unhealthy because of their weight’ because you simply don’t know whether that’s true or not.

Yes I can. Having too much or too little fat actually causes problems, while there are greater risks of many diseases and worse outcomes for many of those and others, there are also health problems that too much excess fat will outright cause. Our knees did not evolve to carry excessive body fat. A very overweight person in their early 20s may not have knee issues but 10 or 20 years of carrying too much fat actually does guarantee mobility issues over time.

And even when young, if you are more than a little overweight you are no longer as healthy as you have the potential to be. You might still be quite healthy but you can no longer move as fast or as fluidly as a healthy weight version of you could. Pretending it doesn't, doesn't help.

Absolutely everyone deserves the respect of being treated as the person they are. (What I mean by this is that Harvey Weinstein, for example, deserves fucking zero respect due to his actions.) Nobody should be judged on their appearance. Nobody should be laughed at or teased or made to feel inadequate for their size or the abilities of their body. Everyone (except people like the aforementioned shithead) should be able to feel good about themselves and who they are. But treating people with respect does not mean pretending that our weight does not have consequences for our health. And there are times when it may be necessary to talk about these things. Obviously, nobody should be giving out unsolicited advice unless they are a medical professional in very particular circumstances. If people had randomly walked up to me and told me I was obese and putting my body under strain it wasn't able to handle, I doubt that would have spurred me on to positive change. More likely it would have resulted in me worsening my eating habits. However, equally, body positivity bullshit led to me ignoring my very unhealthy weight for absolutely years and it's only after losing that weight and gaining strength and endurance that I can feel how very, very unhealthy I was for a long, long time. Because like a slow boiling frog I was destroying myself without realising.

I don't think moderation applies to ultra-processed food. It is like smoking in moderation. And definitely shouldn't be offered to 6 months baby or daily in a lunch box. These highly engineered products have been manufactured to inhibit moderation. You can't just take 1 crips.

Crisp. And you've contradicted yourself here- crisps at parties and two biscuits after school isn't an outright ban, which is what you advocated in your first post. In fact, it sounds shockingly like moderation.

@trancepants

I found your first post really positive - focussing on what your body can do & what you personally have achieved. I've done the same, it feels amazing to be proud of your body for it's abilities & seeing gradual improvement - however you define that - from your own hard work.

And this is what I mean by encourage health at any size - I'm not part of any movement & I'm definitely not saying some one who is significantly overweight can be at peak fitness.

But every one of us CAN take steps to improve health at any size and IMO that's where the focus should be, not loving our appearance.

@GroggyLegs And this is what I mean by encourage health at any size - I'm not part of any movement & I'm definitely not saying some one who is significantly overweight can be at peak fitness.

I absolutely agree with what you personally are saying. It's just that Health at Every Size or HAES is the name of a particular movement which currently massively denies the actual science of the extra risks of being very overweight, denies that there is a relationship between what and how much you eat and your size, denies that it's possible for people to intentionally lose weight by diet and activity and if anyone manages to it will not only be temporary but they will have messed their metabolism up so much they will end up even bigger within a year or so. It's a really toxic, damaging movement. Even though it's got a really quite positive name.

It would be great if people of every size felt empowered to make changes to improve their overall health. That's a wonderful way for people to be. Even if some people never get to ideal weights, the fact is that any improvement you make is likely to yield improvements in your life. And it's that's what HAES was I'd be all for it. Unfortunately it's morphed into something really disempowering and the opposite of what it initially sounds like.

It's a fair point that men as a group are not judged by appearance as much as women. In fact I often see women saying they like a man with a "dad bod" etc but I have yet to hear a man saying that his ideal woman has a "mum tum" (or whatever). There is a lot of pressure on women to be thin and glamorous even when they have just had a baby or are busy, ill, otherwise occupied. The average bloke settled for a s**t and a shower type routine unless maybe it's a special occasion and that's accepted. There must be a sensible line between accepting the reality of people's shapes and sizes and compromising health.

I sort of agree with you OP but I also think the ‘love your curves’ vibe is a necessary balance to the huge pressure from everything on tv / instagram etc that women are supposed to be size ten. Girls are perhaps supposed to be that size, but older women who’ve had a few kids shouldn’t be. Big hips are normal, a flabby belly is normal, saggy boobs are normal. But you don’t see it on tv.

I don’t think we should celebrate being overweight but I do think we should celebrate curves.

[quote trancepants]**@SonnyWinds* If you see an obese person and see "obese" before you see "person" then that's dangerous behaviour that you need to address - and clearly OP does.*

I have a facial deformity. I 100% guarantee that if we met in person it's one of the first things you'd notice about me. You'd also notice that I'm unusually short. We have evolved to notice differences. It's an essential ability not a dangerous behaviour. It's really disingenuous to try and guilt people into feeling shit for normal human observational skills.

Especially when the exact opposite is currently true. We no longer notice level 1 obesity. If we meet someone who has a BMI of 30-35, we won't really see that as anything notable. If asked to describe that person afterwards you might say they were a bit overweight, after you'd described their hair, clothing, skin tone, because their weight would be socially quite normal. And that actually is dangerous behaviour leading to serious health issues. When I was obese I hadn't a fucking clue. I knew I was a bit overweight but I had no idea how very unhealthy a level of excess fat I'd reached. I had lost my ability to visually assess myself. Thankfully I eventually stood on a scale and did the maths and the shock of that copped me on. Up until then I would occasionally try modifying my diet to get back to a healthy weight and give up. I tried and failed because it was hard and my attempts were half hearted. Because when I finally did an honest assessment of myself and realised I was seriously hurting myself with poor eating habits, changing became a lot easier.

And the pay-off was worth it. So, so, so beyond worth it. I decided to get to healthy weight so I could avoid future health problems. What I hadn't realised was that I was already having health problems. The lower energy levels, joint pain, especially in my knees, the back pain I'd had for years weren't age or a result of an injury like I'd assumed they were. They were because I was carrying several stones of fat around on weak muscles. Once I lost the weight and started getting fit, strong and flexible I discovered what my body is actually capable of. I'm actually capable of so much. I'm going into middle age as a strong, fit athlete. I could have spent the rest of my life eating more and more processed pastries and pizzas and buying bigger and bigger clothes. Instead I'm achieving amazing things with my body and feeling really, really happy almost all the time.[/quote]
If you think people shouldn't be "guilted" into treating you with respect and that it's ok to treat you like dirt and assume you're stupid/lazy/incompetent because you're short and have a facial deformity then I guess that's your right - but I think it's unacceptable.

I'll add my two pence - I may get flamed - but I'm very slim - 54kg - and I think body positivity is great - I like the phrase we come in all shapes and sizes, but I'm not a fan of " real women have curves" etc. I often feel women who look like me are being cancelled out.

@NigellaSeed

I'll add my two pence - I may get flamed - but I'm very slim - 54kg - and I think body positivity is great - I like the phrase we come in all shapes and sizes, but I'm not a fan of " real women have curves" etc. I often feel women who look like me are being cancelled out.

100%! I also am a curve-less real woman and I don't see why we can't be as positive about our bodies as everyone else. Incidentally, it's apparently completely acceptable for someone I barely know to say "you have the body of a 10 year old boy" to me. I wasn't particularly bothered, but I bet they'd never make the corresponding insult about someone who was overweight!!

Yes - when I was pregnant with DS a co worker with kind intentions said I'd get a womanly body. :l

A couple of years back, somebody told me I needed to think about my weight as it might affect my fertility and chances of ever having children. Considering I already had 3, it wasn't something that was concerning me too much