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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

"Maybe you should be grateful I let you live here for free"

293 replies

DefinitelyDone · 01/05/2021 00:34

A similar thread got me thinking about my situation with OH. After what he said to me the other day I was in no doubt that he was the one being unreasonable, and I think I’m ready to end things with him over it but some perspective would be good.

We were having a discussion/disagreement over getting our children a small pet, and then he said:

“Maybe you should be grateful that I let you live here for free”

This is long so TLDR: He said I ought to be grateful for living in his house for free. I’ve contributed £15k to ‘his house;’ despite that being most of my saving and me having a mostly low income. And have done 90% of the housework and childcare for 14 years. AIBU for thinking I shouldn’t be expected to pay him?

We aren't married but have been together for 14 years and have three children, 12, eight and three.
He bought our house a few years ago but we used to rent, the house is in his name only. I did contribute £10k towards an extension and have spent at least another 5K on things such as furniture and carpets Etc. I’ve also decorated 6 of the rooms alone if that counts for anything.

I have never paid him rent. We lived together for two years before having our first child and I never paid rent then either, though wasn’t working at the time. He’s never asked for money and I’ve always bought my own things/paid my own bills and never asked for money from him.

While being together my finances have ranged from having no income to receiving £40 CTC per month, up to receiving a higher amount of CTC when he went self employed, to me earning anywhere from £100 -£1000 per week over the past few years but this has now reduced back down again over the past few months and doesn’t look to be increasing again. I’m also very unlikely to be receiving CTC next year as his income has increased again.

My point is that my financial situation is changeable but other than the past few years I’ve had a pretty low income.

He always paid the rent before he bought the house, but there is no mortgage now, he pays for most of the food and household bills, but nothing that is just mine such as my phone bill Etc.

I pay for everything for the children and always have, even when I had hardly any money when our first was born, I bought all her clothes and baby things second hand.
I buy all of their clothes, their school uniforms, activities, pay for school trips and days out, every birthday and Christmas I have bought 90% of their gifts.
I do pretty much all of the housework and childcare. He is better with our three year old than he ever was with the other two and does tend to his evening (not middle of the night) awakenings which he never did with the others. Basically, he’s just being a father there, sort of, but this was pretty amazing when he started that as I was completely on my own with the very frequent evening and night awakenings with my first two.
He never, ever gets up early to help with the children. He never, ever lets me sleep in in the mornings. He rarely gets up for work before 10am and is usually home by 5pm, often earlier.
There was a period of about a month when our second was a baby and went through a period of wanting to sleep in when it was time to get up to get my first to nursery. After much nagging he started taking our first to nursery so I could sleep in a little and let the baby sleep in too but this didn’t last long and he hasn’t helped in the morning since. Eight years since.
He occasionally collects them from school but I do all the school related things- homework, spelling, reading Etc, I did all of the home learning, even during the first lock down when he had no work. I battled a very reluctant seven year old with a very demanding toddler while he hid in his ‘office’ playing games or whatever.
I have always done pretty much all of the housework, until our three year old was born I used to do his laundry too, now he sorts his own clothes out, I do pretty much all of the cooking, cleaning, tidying.

Things got very bad during lockdown and I pretty much stopped everything. He had no excuse of being
busy with work and witnessing how he watched me fall apart and didn’t step in to help really hit home how things were, so I did the minimal laundry and pretty much stopped cooking and cleaning. The rest of the day was home schooling. He started to occasionally wash towels and load/unload the dishwasher a few times. He’s even mopped the kitchen floor and cleaned a bathroom or two a couple of times. Amazing. I wish I wasn’t joking.

So bearing in mind all I do and have done, is it unreasonable of me to think that actually, I shouldn’t have to pay him a penny to live here? I shouldn’t be grateful for living here for free like it’s an amazing kindness from him, and that actually, he’s the unreasonable asshole here and should be grateful for everything I do. It’s really shown me how he feels towards me; I’m just a lodger that doesn’t contribute in any way.

I realise all this is grounds to LTB and after several similar threads and being told to, I think I’m finally ready to call it a day, but right now I want to focus on who’s being unreasonable here and if I’m deluded.

OP posts:
winched · 01/05/2021 08:45

Why are so many women so down on another woman being a parent herself and not paying a childminder - and saying that parenting is really cushy and easy?

I'm genuinely not being down on anyone (male or female) who decides to stay at home and look after their children. Good for them, good for the children, and if it works for everyone in the family then that's great.

Are you really saying you think she should be paying rent?

Nope. Merely just commenting that I didn't know who was BU in a general sense. I can see a bit of unreasonableness on both sides, and only because the SAHP in this case didn't contribute anything for 2 years prior to becoming a SAHP, so it's not like SAHP gave up anything.

Since the mortgage has been totally paid off, a lot of the mortgage has actually been contributed by OP, especially if she paid £10K towards it.

Ehhhh how much are mortgages in your part of the world? Here a house is going to cost at least £100k, which is 10x £10k. Not seeing how a lot of it has been contributed by op.

Finally, don’t be taken in by envious posters like winched saying how easy it is to stay home with the children and to lose a significant slice of income. If it were that easy, most women would stay home and the workforce won’t consist of so many working mothers.

Firstly, not envious. Secondly, other posters don't need to be "taken in". If they are mothers then there is a high chance they had a maternity leave. They know what doing housework and looking after children consists of. I'd say a fair few experienced it during the last year - and a bit of WFH during lockdowns too. You're acting like single parents who know exactly how much work is involved in keeping a house and being the sole carer or children don't exist. They do. You can maintain that it's equal to working full time and having the sole responsibility of earning all the money, but in my experience it's just not true. Is it hard work and an important job? Yes absolutely. But I don't believe it's as hard as some posters on here make out.

And no I don't think the reason most women join the workforce is because it's not as easy as I'm claiming. I think necessity a plays a large part, and the fact in most cases it's a daft and precarious position for any woman to put themselves in - especially for those who aren't married. Most women have the foresight to see that once the children grow up and go to school, their job prospects are going to be abysmal.

they would rather be at work and have daycare (whether nursery, school & holiday clubs, nanny, childminder or grandparents) to look after the children and carry out domestic chores in the day.

LOL are you so out of touch with reality that you think most working mums have someone to carry out the domestic chores in the day 😂? I have no words.

Bythemillpond · 01/05/2021 08:50

I really don’t see that getting married is that good.
I am married and really think if I had my time again I wouldn’t bother with marriage. If I wasn’t married it would cost me less to split up and I wouldn’t get any more. In fact being married would cost me.
My friend has just divorced her husband. She has ended up with less money than if she weren’t married

Getting her name on the deeds of the house when the house was bought was what should have been done. I really can’t see why you would be in a relationship with someone and then they buy a house in their own name and you are not on the deeds but are expected to move in with them to become their unpaid cook cleaner and nanny.

SatyajitRayFan · 01/05/2021 08:51

@winched

When I read these types of threads on MN I always pretend I'm reading them as if you were a man.

Honestly I don't know.

Yes you seem to do the majority of the housework but he (I assume) works full time and pays for everything else? You paid for a £10k extension but I assume since there's no mortgage he's paid at least ten times that? Lots of the income your post is claiming as "yours" is actually really family money i.e CTC.

I'd be saying you were definitely not U if you'd given up your career for the children, but you didn't contribute anything for 2 years before having the kids?

I've been in both positions and found staying home with the children is much easier, especially as you must have had years with only two at school. People wonder why there are so many of these threads and so many women putting themselves in these (what seem to be, from outsiders perspective, daft and precarious) positions. The answer is clearly because most people jump at the chance to have everything taken care of financially for the price of weekly housework and looking after your own children. Why else would so many people do it if wasn't such a cushty deal? It's usually when the kids grow up and the working partner starts (rightly) complaining that the non-working partner starts to think it's unfair...

But regardless of who is being unreasonable here, your situation is precarious AF and you need to get your youngest into nursery and start earning a wage. If your DP does 50% of the family/ house chores then contribute toward bills, and if not then put that money aside so you have something to fall back on.

I agree with this. OP you have been very unreasonable to not have had financial independence ever, even before children, and to not have had a marriage when you decided to have children. You've put yourself in a very precarious situation. You've got to count your pennies and make a detailed plan to leave. But living long term in this horrible situation will not be good for your health (mental and physical).
minniemomo · 01/05/2021 08:52

@Howmanysleepsnow

I actually taught my exh how to cook a few meals after he left me because he realised he literally didn't know how to feed himself (except toast, takeaways and microwave meals) I showed him how to crack eggs! That basic l.

I also had to tell him how to sort out bills (I did everything when married though had joint bank account so he paid)

He had moaned that I didn't earn enough and worked pt, yet I did everything or hired people to do it eg cleaner etc.

He's a high earner and he is generous after divorce, my maintenance arrives on time and he's supporting the kids until university graduation. But he was useless! My dd actually laughed when he told them he was leaving as she was convinced he couldn't look after himself

hedgehogger1 · 01/05/2021 08:54

You sound more like an employee than one half of a loving relationship.

wewereliars · 01/05/2021 08:59

I remember equitable interests from Land law lectures years ago. The OP does theoretically have an interest,at least in the £15k, but that depends on her being able to prove what both parties intended at the time. Do you have anything in writing OP from your OH to the effect that 1. The £15k is to return to you if the relationship fails, or in any other circumstance? or 2. Both parties intended that the OP have a share in the property. If not OP you will not succeed.

The law of equity is in play here, if there is a lack of documentation, (particularly in respect of real estate which means land and any property on it) it's an area of law that's supposed to be a fall back to prevent extreme unfairness.

But the usual rules of evidence still apply, and the burden of proof is on the person claiming, it's a very expensive area of law to try to enforce a claim under and such a claim unfortunately very rarely succeeds.

RUOKHon · 01/05/2021 09:03

This isn’t about SAHM/WOHM, or married/not married. This is about a man being a cunt.

Stop focussing on the woman’s behaviour.

Telling your life partner and the mother of your children that she’s ’lucky’ to be allowed to live in a house she’s paid upwards of £25k into ‘for free’ is cunty.

Unfortunately the law in this country is outdated and misogynistic. A woman has no rights and a man has no obligations towards her unless she becomes his chattel. It’s so shit that women have no choice but to get married or get fucked over, it seems.

(And I would add that even when women are married, the inherent misogyny in the law still sees them fucked over anyway via the family courts and pathetic CMS system.)

Of course none of this would be an issue if OP’s partner wasn’t a nasty twat in the first place. But sure, let’s all pile on OP for not predicting that he would end up treating her like shit.

ilovesushi · 01/05/2021 09:06

I am so glad to hear that you are getting out of this relationship. You don't need to justify yourself. In a partnership you are a team and you share. He clearly does not get that and is completely unreasonable. He sounds like a terrible role model for the children. I hope you can find a way to get yourself set up independently from him. I have no knowledge of legal matters, but it sounds like he has a very warped view and is not going to come to a fair financial arrangement on his own. Very best of luck! x

wewereliars · 01/05/2021 09:10

RUOKHon has it nailed I am afraid. Law in this country is still deeply misogynstic, and the family courts are not fit for purpose.

Carpet0fTruth474 · 01/05/2021 09:11

Legally you are 2 single people

You can find info about the differences between single & married on the Citizens Advice Web page & www.gov.uk

Thewinterofdiscontent · 01/05/2021 09:19

No women I know are like this. Some women just want it easy and then are the first to moan when it all goes wrong.*

I think most people male or female want what suits them best. They find someone they fancy and it sort of snowballs.
I do know a man who gave up an interesting job to support his wife’s career. They also weren’t married and he had part time work around all the childcare and housework. His old job isn’t open to him anymore so he’s retraining.now the kids are older.
The main difference I could see is that he didn’t express any angst. He wasn’t letting down feminism or dismissed by staying at home in the same way women appear to be,

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 01/05/2021 09:19

Wow. How kind of him to 'let' you live in a house that you've financially contributed towards, while you bring up his children alone and do everything else to look after the family

Hont1986 · 01/05/2021 09:20

Just to clear something up, there is a chance (unlikely though) that OP might get her £10k. There is no chance of her getting back the £5k she spent on furniture. That doesn't buy any share in the property.

Moonstone1234 · 01/05/2021 09:21

Honestly I do despair with women who put themselves into these situations and then wring their hands.

We need to take personal responsibility for our own lives otherwise we make the same errors time and time again. Yes, this relationship seems doomed but the OP has chosen to have children a good few years apart, has chosen to not work (and after so long out of the work place what would she do?).

As a pp says. Don’t ever rely on someone else to support you financially, have at least a part time role to keep your skills up.

JovialNickname · 01/05/2021 09:22

It sounds really harsh, but essentially if you're not married, you are a person that he lets live there for free, purely as an act of goodwill on his part. Without the benefit of marriage that's exactly the position you're in - you have no legal rights at all.

Moonstone1234 · 01/05/2021 09:25

I don’t agree that the laws are outdated. A partner could be someone you met last night or someone you have been with for years. Either way it’s known that being married gives you far more protection.

I would never had had children without being married. Why people do it without looking into it is beyond me.

Magnificentmug12 · 01/05/2021 09:26

You wouldn’t be able to find a place to live for 14 years with it costing you just 15k. So yabu. And you do live there for free.

The cost of living there for free is you have no career and reliant on others. That’s too bug a price to pay and I wouldn’t do it. We all make different choices.

AzureHawker1 · 01/05/2021 09:28

Why are people saying that she should have paid rent? If that the case then he should have been paying her for the childcare and housekeeping she was doing!
If the OP had been working consistently and she had to pay for everything for the kids then I expect she would have been the one who had to fork out for the childcare while she was at work too so you can’t really blame her for not choosing to go to work just to pay for someone else to look after her kids!
Op I have just come out if a very similar relationship and Yanbu, leave now. Think of the money you will lose as if you have been renting for the last few years and start again. Hopefully you will be able to get your ex to pay proper child maintenance and take your Dcs for a couple of days a week. I might be worse off now but a combination of finally forcing my ex to take on some of the childcare when he has his weekends with them and having control of my own finances has been so good for me. I’m feeling quite positive about the future even though at this stage I am at rock bottom financially!

Bluntness100 · 01/05/2021 09:29

Unfortunately he's massively fucked you over by not marrying you and he sounds ready to shaft you in the split and happily see his children go without. Bastard

I just don’t understand posts like this. The op isn’t some inanimate object, or some breeding mare, she chose to stay with him, she chose to continue to have kids, years apart, and by her own admission knowing what he was like.

It takes two to tango and she has personal responsibility for the choices she made.

Donotgogentle · 01/05/2021 09:36

@JovialNickname

It sounds really harsh, but essentially if you're not married, you are a person that he lets live there for free, purely as an act of goodwill on his part. Without the benefit of marriage that's exactly the position you're in - you have no legal rights at all.
This is wrong.

Read the legal posts above.

Twoforthree · 01/05/2021 09:37

I'm so glad that at last you are ready to actually leave.

Waterfallgirl · 01/05/2021 09:57

Please leave, you deserve more.
When someone tells you who the are - listen.

HadEnoughofOtherThreads · 01/05/2021 10:18

Sadly, this is how soo many women get done over by men, married or not.

Regardless of whether you are married/not married/SAHP/not a SAHP - always keep your financial independence, ie. always keep your foot in the door with a job/career, even if only part-time. If things go tits up, you can continue to support yourself and your children.

HadEnoughofOtherThreads · 01/05/2021 10:25

And well done for deciding to finally leave. You’ll be a lot happier without having to deal with his selfish BS.

It’s done now, but you should have never contributed towards the upkeep of the house without your name on the deeds or without being married. You should have put that money in your Fuck Off fund.

Him not helping with homeschooling whilst he sat on his arse at home without a job would have done it for me. I would have left him at that point.

Good luck for happier times 🥂💐

Pansypotter123 · 01/05/2021 10:26

How old are you @DefinitelyDone? You've got a long life ahead of you I hope. Make it a happy one for you and your children, and leave.