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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

"Maybe you should be grateful I let you live here for free"

293 replies

DefinitelyDone · 01/05/2021 00:34

A similar thread got me thinking about my situation with OH. After what he said to me the other day I was in no doubt that he was the one being unreasonable, and I think I’m ready to end things with him over it but some perspective would be good.

We were having a discussion/disagreement over getting our children a small pet, and then he said:

“Maybe you should be grateful that I let you live here for free”

This is long so TLDR: He said I ought to be grateful for living in his house for free. I’ve contributed £15k to ‘his house;’ despite that being most of my saving and me having a mostly low income. And have done 90% of the housework and childcare for 14 years. AIBU for thinking I shouldn’t be expected to pay him?

We aren't married but have been together for 14 years and have three children, 12, eight and three.
He bought our house a few years ago but we used to rent, the house is in his name only. I did contribute £10k towards an extension and have spent at least another 5K on things such as furniture and carpets Etc. I’ve also decorated 6 of the rooms alone if that counts for anything.

I have never paid him rent. We lived together for two years before having our first child and I never paid rent then either, though wasn’t working at the time. He’s never asked for money and I’ve always bought my own things/paid my own bills and never asked for money from him.

While being together my finances have ranged from having no income to receiving £40 CTC per month, up to receiving a higher amount of CTC when he went self employed, to me earning anywhere from £100 -£1000 per week over the past few years but this has now reduced back down again over the past few months and doesn’t look to be increasing again. I’m also very unlikely to be receiving CTC next year as his income has increased again.

My point is that my financial situation is changeable but other than the past few years I’ve had a pretty low income.

He always paid the rent before he bought the house, but there is no mortgage now, he pays for most of the food and household bills, but nothing that is just mine such as my phone bill Etc.

I pay for everything for the children and always have, even when I had hardly any money when our first was born, I bought all her clothes and baby things second hand.
I buy all of their clothes, their school uniforms, activities, pay for school trips and days out, every birthday and Christmas I have bought 90% of their gifts.
I do pretty much all of the housework and childcare. He is better with our three year old than he ever was with the other two and does tend to his evening (not middle of the night) awakenings which he never did with the others. Basically, he’s just being a father there, sort of, but this was pretty amazing when he started that as I was completely on my own with the very frequent evening and night awakenings with my first two.
He never, ever gets up early to help with the children. He never, ever lets me sleep in in the mornings. He rarely gets up for work before 10am and is usually home by 5pm, often earlier.
There was a period of about a month when our second was a baby and went through a period of wanting to sleep in when it was time to get up to get my first to nursery. After much nagging he started taking our first to nursery so I could sleep in a little and let the baby sleep in too but this didn’t last long and he hasn’t helped in the morning since. Eight years since.
He occasionally collects them from school but I do all the school related things- homework, spelling, reading Etc, I did all of the home learning, even during the first lock down when he had no work. I battled a very reluctant seven year old with a very demanding toddler while he hid in his ‘office’ playing games or whatever.
I have always done pretty much all of the housework, until our three year old was born I used to do his laundry too, now he sorts his own clothes out, I do pretty much all of the cooking, cleaning, tidying.

Things got very bad during lockdown and I pretty much stopped everything. He had no excuse of being
busy with work and witnessing how he watched me fall apart and didn’t step in to help really hit home how things were, so I did the minimal laundry and pretty much stopped cooking and cleaning. The rest of the day was home schooling. He started to occasionally wash towels and load/unload the dishwasher a few times. He’s even mopped the kitchen floor and cleaned a bathroom or two a couple of times. Amazing. I wish I wasn’t joking.

So bearing in mind all I do and have done, is it unreasonable of me to think that actually, I shouldn’t have to pay him a penny to live here? I shouldn’t be grateful for living here for free like it’s an amazing kindness from him, and that actually, he’s the unreasonable asshole here and should be grateful for everything I do. It’s really shown me how he feels towards me; I’m just a lodger that doesn’t contribute in any way.

I realise all this is grounds to LTB and after several similar threads and being told to, I think I’m finally ready to call it a day, but right now I want to focus on who’s being unreasonable here and if I’m deluded.

OP posts:
AMCoffeePMWine · 01/05/2021 02:30

You’re in a vulnerable position, and your partner sounds horrid. I’m so sorry, I’m sure this wasn’t what you hoped for, at all.

See a solicitor to find out if you have any property rights. And please get and job and start squirreling cash away as a back up for you and your children.

Hont1986 · 01/05/2021 02:30

Well, she doesn't buy everything for them, she buys clothes and presents. Their food, water, housing, heating, transport, etc is apparently paid for by the father.

AMCoffeePMWine · 01/05/2021 02:31

@Hont1986

Well, she doesn't buy everything for them, she buys clothes and presents. Their food, water, housing, heating, transport, etc is apparently paid for by the father.
Wow, that’s big of him.
Hont1986 · 01/05/2021 02:41

Really? I don't think it is, I think it's right he does that since he has the higher income. I was just responding to the point earlier that she pays for everything for the kids.

dailygrowl · 01/05/2021 02:43

Is winched actually the OP’s partner or his buddy posting under an assumed name?

Since the mortgage has been totally paid off, a lot of the mortgage has actually been contributed by OP, especially if she paid £10K towards it. The fact that it was an extension means she’s actually paid for the house.

The law would see things quite differently from what many here have said about her not being entitled to anything since her name is not in the house deed and they’re not married. If you are eligible for legal aid, OP (ask at a citizens advice bureau) it’s worth getting legal advice as to what you’re entitled to in terms of child support and maintenance given what you’ve paid on the house.

The partner sounds emotionally abusive and is lying to her by saying he lets her live there for free. It’s the complete opposite of that - she has paid for the house, done his housework for free, and taken care of his children for free.

Finally, don’t be taken in by envious posters like winched saying how easy it is to stay home with the children and to lose a significant slice of income. If it were that easy, most women would stay home and the workforce won’t consist of so many working mothers. Some have to work out of necessity but a significant do so because they would rather be at work and have daycare (whether nursery, school & holiday clubs, nanny, childminder or grandparents) to look after the children and carry out domestic chores in the day. So many of us can attest to this.

The one important thing I would say to you, OP, is that even if he’s
pinched 10K, even 20k, off you, money can be earned again (you’ve shown you can do it) but the effects on your children cannot be undone. Do the children hear how he belittles you and lies to you or are these conversations about money and other aspects of your relationship only discussed quietly at night when the children are asleep? If any of it is in front of the children, he has already begun to damage the kids by a) teaching them that it’s ok to be unkind and exploit their mother, b) teaching them that this is the way to behave to a spouse or partner, thereby setting up the children to have damaged and dysfunctional relationships for the rest of their lives, c) showing them how to take you for granted and exploit you when they’re adults. For that reason alone, it is not healthy for the children to grow up in a house occupied by him. And you probably will find yourself financially better off the sooner you and the children leave him.

I think you know the answer as to whether you should be rid of him, but it would be worthwhile seeking professional legal guidance as to what share of the home you’re entitled to and what his financial obligations are towards the children. Best of luck.

Bythemillpond · 01/05/2021 02:53

Well, she doesn't buy everything for them, she buys clothes and presents. Their food, water, housing, heating, transport, etc is apparently paid for by the father

Wouldn't water, housing and heating be the same if this man lived on his own. Are we saying he is such a generous guy because he doesn’t let his children starve and he pays for a bit of petrol to get them to school?

I would see if you can reclaim any of the money you have spent on this house. The conservatory monies at least. After all that will not just have put the cost on the house but also any percentage upturn in the property market.

choli · 01/05/2021 02:57

He would not have been able to work if she had not brought up the children.
He probably was not the one who wanted the children, so it would not have been a career issue.

YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators · 01/05/2021 03:05

Trying to figure out what would happen if unmarried co-parents automatically gained similar rights as married couples once they had a child together and paternity was assured.

Wishing you courage and clarity, OP.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 01/05/2021 03:08

What the fuck OP why did youetvhim buy the house and oy put his name on it? How did he manage to pay off the house?

Gremlinsateit · 01/05/2021 03:10

I’m from forrin and I really don’t understand most of the replies to threads like these. I get that you don’t have a concept of de facto marriage (though I don’t get why!). But does OP really have no equitable interest in the house that she has contributed money to? And surely if she left, the father would be obliged to pay child support? Why do domestic partners have no rights in this situation?

AMCoffeePMWine · 01/05/2021 03:13

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BlackMarauder · 01/05/2021 03:18

Threads like this make me want to scream. Women are socially conditioned to sacrifice everything for men and children (even if the DC aren't theirs). I'm trying to imagine the reverse and I can't see any man placing himself in danger of poverty for love. Why do women choose to do this themselves when they've seen what happens to other women who made the same choice. Maybe we should make it a high school class to teach teen girls about the results of surrendering their rights in the name of love and family..

BlackMarauder · 01/05/2021 03:24

@Gremlinsateit I also find it strange that the UK offers no protection to common law partners. Where I'm from, the government got around lazy men who felt they were too good for marriage by treating common law like marriage. That way women are protected from shifty men.

Greygreenblue · 01/05/2021 03:32

OP this sounds awful and yes you should leave. You might be financially a bit screwed under UK laws, because you are not married, but that is not going to change so better to get out now and start rebuilding.

Incidentally if you were in Australia you would not be screwed, de facto relationships (also known as common law marriage) are treated very similarly to marriages when dividing assets (or similarly enough anyway). I feel like the women of the UK, because they are the group most likely to be affected (most likely to take time out of the workforce for children etc) should start protesting as this. It doesn’t have to be this way.

frazzledasarock · 01/05/2021 03:50

@Gremlinsateit

I’m from forrin and I really don’t understand most of the replies to threads like these. I get that you don’t have a concept of de facto marriage (though I don’t get why!). But does OP really have no equitable interest in the house that she has contributed money to? And surely if she left, the father would be obliged to pay child support? Why do domestic partners have no rights in this situation?
Weird isn’t it, but she doesn’t.

OP could consult a solicitor but it would be an expensive (and I suspect pointless) exercise.

I never look at these threads as if a man had written it.

I don’t know any man who has put their career on the back burner to take care of children full time in order to not incur childcare fees.
Or who gets a job based on their childcare needs, so is there for pick up and drop offs, and sick days, I know no man who does all housework and admin and cooking, decorating, furnishing. Whilst also simultaneously plowing their life savings into a house they have no financial right to, and who also pays for the daily running of the household for food, kids clothing etc.

Literally I do not know of a single man who has done this.

I know plenty of women who have though.

OP, you could consult a solicitor, do you have evidence of contributing £10k to the house extension?
No idea if you’d get anywhere with it.

As he’s self employed you’re not going to get child maintenance either.

Start putting as much money away as possible and look at how you’d house yourself and DC if you left the relationship.

Your P sounds like a dick.

stayathomer · 01/05/2021 04:02

A fully committed relationship with kids, whether the person is married or not, should always be that two people live as one in terms of their basic living arrangements, their house and bills. I shudder to think what any kids seeing this situation would think, that the chief breadwinner has a hold on the other. Btw I do know men who have given up jobs to be the stay at home parent and they do it for the same reason I and any other woman has, because why would you work if it costs you money and your kids never see even one of you? Our kids used to be first into the creche/baby sitter, and last out. The day after payday I'd hand over my wages to the creche and would still have to dip into remaining money for petrol to get to work. That's why one person stays at home. The other supports them but that shouldn't make the person who stays home indebted to the other. Sigh. Hope it all works out for you OP

Firstworlddilemma · 01/05/2021 04:57

It is a complex area of law but it is not as simple as saying the op has ‘no rights’ to the house. The fact she has contributed to the building of an extension may be mean she has a claim under the Trusts of Land Act. She would need to prove the financial contribution she made as well establishing that she did so on a common intention that the property was to be shared but there is a legal argument that op needs to explore.

tortoiselover100 · 01/05/2021 05:05

You might be better off away from. Him because at least then you would get maintenance. Forget about the £15k, you have no claim to that and it sounds like he knows it and isn't decent enough to offer you it. Get out now and get that maintenance from him.Thanks

Nancydrawn · 01/05/2021 05:05

[quote BlackMarauder]@Gremlinsateit I also find it strange that the UK offers no protection to common law partners. Where I'm from, the government got around lazy men who felt they were too good for marriage by treating common law like marriage. That way women are protected from shifty men.[/quote]
It's because marriage is a contract and you can't accidentally enter into contracts (well, not usually--there are odd exceptions). They have to be done willingly. And there are plenty of people who would like to live with someone without being married to them: people who don't believe in marriage, people who want to protect independent assets, people who have already been married and have children and don't want to complicate inheritance, people who want to be able to split up at any time without having to go to the courts to sort it. As a legal person, I want less to be protected and more to be respected.

I think that there are shitty, shitty people out there, and I get why you want common law marriage to be a safety net. But I also think that common law marriage can be a trap as much as it can be a protection.

Ilady · 01/05/2021 05:06

I know for example in Ireland that if your married you can pass a house, a life insurance policy ect to your spouse upon your death and the person left does not pay tax on this. If you're not married you can give your spouse something like 16,000 to 17,000 and after that they have to pay 33 per cent tax on the remainder.
So some people could be in the situation of having to sell a family home left to the remaining partner to pay off a tax bill. They would also have to pay tax on a life insurance payout.
So after losing your partner you left bringing up a child/children in worse financal position due to not been married. Also you can't claim a state widow's or widowder pensions which may not be a lot but every bit helps when you have a family.
Most of my friends were told growing up to that it was better to get married and then have a family.

Some people have this thing that marriage is just a piece of paper so why would you bother getting married but have no idea that if gives people protection if the worse was to happen.

Flickerofhope · 01/05/2021 05:08

minou123 I totally agree with you, never depend on a man financially, ours was that he used to pay for the monthly household expenses and weekly shopping and no house work, I was a SAHM were as I was responsible for trips abroad for him, family emergencies, household goods, everything for the kids, clothing for us, car tax/ins, also putting a bit aside as savings for the family, all the housework and everything related to the kids. He didn’t see that as contributing and I was apparently freeloading from his money, until I got myself a job and split everything down the middle including the house work, I feel as though I have the independence to do what I want now financially as I have my own money to spend as I wish after the expenses have been paid. Best thing ever.

Callixte · 01/05/2021 05:21

He sounds like a piece of work.

There are a lot of different views about whether the arrangement the two of you have had is fair, benefits you more, or benefits him more and why. Any of these would easily be reasonable if the two of you had agreed to it. But the fact is, you HAVE had your current arrangement for YEARS. He could have proposed something different, he could have asked for a change at any time. Instead he comes out with what's basically an accusation during what should be an absolutely routing and ordinary family discussion (mutual child wants pet, one parent wants to say yes, the other wants to say no). My interpretation would be that you've been together for fourteen years and have three children, and he still doesn't see the two of you as a unit or the five of you as a family. It'd take a lot of explanation and apology to convince me otherwise.

SionnachGlic · 01/05/2021 05:47

The way he behaves at home & his lack of care in general towards you & kids would be reason enough for me to have concerns about this guy...never mind his statement about the house. You are a skivvy in your home but it is not your house. What he said is what he thinks....he thinks you are a freeloader.. At one point you said you earned up to €1k per week...I'm not sure why you feel that's not an option now or soon in the future? If it could be (maybe re-training/updating) ...I'd get the youngest into school (next yeat?), get a decent job & save enough for deposit & rent & then, if nothing has changed with this guy, I'd be gone (with my kids). I could never ever depend on someone financially to the extent that I had no means or way to look after myself & kids. I think you need to get a paying job outside the home & start making yourself & your future the priority asap

drpet49 · 01/05/2021 06:19

* Women are socially conditioned to sacrifice everything for men and children (even if the DC aren't theirs).*

No women I know are like this. Some women just want it easy and then are the first to moan when it all goes wrong.

user113424742258631134 · 01/05/2021 06:20

@winched

When I read these types of threads on MN I always pretend I'm reading them as if you were a man.

Honestly I don't know.

Yes you seem to do the majority of the housework but he (I assume) works full time and pays for everything else? You paid for a £10k extension but I assume since there's no mortgage he's paid at least ten times that? Lots of the income your post is claiming as "yours" is actually really family money i.e CTC.

I'd be saying you were definitely not U if you'd given up your career for the children, but you didn't contribute anything for 2 years before having the kids?

I've been in both positions and found staying home with the children is much easier, especially as you must have had years with only two at school. People wonder why there are so many of these threads and so many women putting themselves in these (what seem to be, from outsiders perspective, daft and precarious) positions. The answer is clearly because most people jump at the chance to have everything taken care of financially for the price of weekly housework and looking after your own children. Why else would so many people do it if wasn't such a cushty deal? It's usually when the kids grow up and the working partner starts (rightly) complaining that the non-working partner starts to think it's unfair...

But regardless of who is being unreasonable here, your situation is precarious AF and you need to get your youngest into nursery and start earning a wage. If your DP does 50% of the family/ house chores then contribute toward bills, and if not then put that money aside so you have something to fall back on.

It's fascinating how you managed to miss the part where the op has paid all child-related costs for their joint children on her own.