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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

"Maybe you should be grateful I let you live here for free"

293 replies

DefinitelyDone · 01/05/2021 00:34

A similar thread got me thinking about my situation with OH. After what he said to me the other day I was in no doubt that he was the one being unreasonable, and I think I’m ready to end things with him over it but some perspective would be good.

We were having a discussion/disagreement over getting our children a small pet, and then he said:

“Maybe you should be grateful that I let you live here for free”

This is long so TLDR: He said I ought to be grateful for living in his house for free. I’ve contributed £15k to ‘his house;’ despite that being most of my saving and me having a mostly low income. And have done 90% of the housework and childcare for 14 years. AIBU for thinking I shouldn’t be expected to pay him?

We aren't married but have been together for 14 years and have three children, 12, eight and three.
He bought our house a few years ago but we used to rent, the house is in his name only. I did contribute £10k towards an extension and have spent at least another 5K on things such as furniture and carpets Etc. I’ve also decorated 6 of the rooms alone if that counts for anything.

I have never paid him rent. We lived together for two years before having our first child and I never paid rent then either, though wasn’t working at the time. He’s never asked for money and I’ve always bought my own things/paid my own bills and never asked for money from him.

While being together my finances have ranged from having no income to receiving £40 CTC per month, up to receiving a higher amount of CTC when he went self employed, to me earning anywhere from £100 -£1000 per week over the past few years but this has now reduced back down again over the past few months and doesn’t look to be increasing again. I’m also very unlikely to be receiving CTC next year as his income has increased again.

My point is that my financial situation is changeable but other than the past few years I’ve had a pretty low income.

He always paid the rent before he bought the house, but there is no mortgage now, he pays for most of the food and household bills, but nothing that is just mine such as my phone bill Etc.

I pay for everything for the children and always have, even when I had hardly any money when our first was born, I bought all her clothes and baby things second hand.
I buy all of their clothes, their school uniforms, activities, pay for school trips and days out, every birthday and Christmas I have bought 90% of their gifts.
I do pretty much all of the housework and childcare. He is better with our three year old than he ever was with the other two and does tend to his evening (not middle of the night) awakenings which he never did with the others. Basically, he’s just being a father there, sort of, but this was pretty amazing when he started that as I was completely on my own with the very frequent evening and night awakenings with my first two.
He never, ever gets up early to help with the children. He never, ever lets me sleep in in the mornings. He rarely gets up for work before 10am and is usually home by 5pm, often earlier.
There was a period of about a month when our second was a baby and went through a period of wanting to sleep in when it was time to get up to get my first to nursery. After much nagging he started taking our first to nursery so I could sleep in a little and let the baby sleep in too but this didn’t last long and he hasn’t helped in the morning since. Eight years since.
He occasionally collects them from school but I do all the school related things- homework, spelling, reading Etc, I did all of the home learning, even during the first lock down when he had no work. I battled a very reluctant seven year old with a very demanding toddler while he hid in his ‘office’ playing games or whatever.
I have always done pretty much all of the housework, until our three year old was born I used to do his laundry too, now he sorts his own clothes out, I do pretty much all of the cooking, cleaning, tidying.

Things got very bad during lockdown and I pretty much stopped everything. He had no excuse of being
busy with work and witnessing how he watched me fall apart and didn’t step in to help really hit home how things were, so I did the minimal laundry and pretty much stopped cooking and cleaning. The rest of the day was home schooling. He started to occasionally wash towels and load/unload the dishwasher a few times. He’s even mopped the kitchen floor and cleaned a bathroom or two a couple of times. Amazing. I wish I wasn’t joking.

So bearing in mind all I do and have done, is it unreasonable of me to think that actually, I shouldn’t have to pay him a penny to live here? I shouldn’t be grateful for living here for free like it’s an amazing kindness from him, and that actually, he’s the unreasonable asshole here and should be grateful for everything I do. It’s really shown me how he feels towards me; I’m just a lodger that doesn’t contribute in any way.

I realise all this is grounds to LTB and after several similar threads and being told to, I think I’m finally ready to call it a day, but right now I want to focus on who’s being unreasonable here and if I’m deluded.

OP posts:
JackieTheFart · 01/05/2021 00:37

Wowee. Your situation sounds absolutely awful. I’m sure things were good once, but now you’ve contributed £15k to a house you don’t have any rights to and you’re not married.

YANBU at all, but I really feel for you. He’s quite obviously the type to allow you to live with your children in abject poverty rather than provide for them and you.

Abc321xyz · 01/05/2021 00:39

You're absolutely screwed. Sorry

Aquamarine1029 · 01/05/2021 00:41

The only way you could be deluded is if you think there's any hope for this relationship or if you think your partner has even a shred of respect for you. He doesn't. Why have you never gotten married? His choice?

Unreasonabubble · 01/05/2021 00:42

You have no rights. You need to get married OR you walk away now.

minou123 · 01/05/2021 00:45

In a fair and moral world, you are not unreasonable.
But we don't live in a fair and moral world.

To be honest, you're not in a great situation, but I think you know that.

I cant shout this loud enough, but never ever ever ever rely on someone for financial security. Ever.

It doesn't matter to me if this is a woman or a man.

Grabachair · 01/05/2021 00:49

Everything else aside, you aren’t living there for free. You paid 15k for a property you have no right on, so works out the same as paying rent. LTB

Howmanysleepsnow · 01/05/2021 00:53

My Dh is the same, minus the occasional loading of the dishwasher/ doing laundry etc.
And now he says he’s leaving.
I think they are both BU, but that doesn’t help either of us, does it?

SpacePotato · 01/05/2021 00:54

You put 15 grand into a house you have no claim to.
He could kick you out tomorrow and you'd have nothing from it.

iforgotyourenotbono · 01/05/2021 01:00

You're in a really awful position financially and he's played you like a good'un.
It's not "our house" - it's his, you aren't married and have absolutely no claim to that house whatsoever no matter how much you've invested. You need to insist on marriage or get out, ASAP. You need to protect yourself, or in the event he kicks you out you have no leg to stand on at all.

GeorgiaGirl52 · 01/05/2021 01:02

@minou123

In a fair and moral world, you are not unreasonable. But we don't live in a fair and moral world.

To be honest, you're not in a great situation, but I think you know that.

I cant shout this loud enough, but never ever ever ever rely on someone for financial security. Ever.

It doesn't matter to me if this is a woman or a man.

Morally you are in the right. Legally you have few rights. The children will have more rights that you. Basically for 14 years you have been a maid with benefits. If you leave and take the children you will be paid a minimum amount to take care of them. Start saving your pennies and stashing away the odd pound in an account of your own -- I predict when your youngest is ready for uni you will be thrown out. Unless he needs a nurse/caretaker.
winched · 01/05/2021 01:02

When I read these types of threads on MN I always pretend I'm reading them as if you were a man.

Honestly I don't know.

Yes you seem to do the majority of the housework but he (I assume) works full time and pays for everything else? You paid for a £10k extension but I assume since there's no mortgage he's paid at least ten times that? Lots of the income your post is claiming as "yours" is actually really family money i.e CTC.

I'd be saying you were definitely not U if you'd given up your career for the children, but you didn't contribute anything for 2 years before having the kids?

I've been in both positions and found staying home with the children is much easier, especially as you must have had years with only two at school. People wonder why there are so many of these threads and so many women putting themselves in these (what seem to be, from outsiders perspective, daft and precarious) positions. The answer is clearly because most people jump at the chance to have everything taken care of financially for the price of weekly housework and looking after your own children. Why else would so many people do it if wasn't such a cushty deal? It's usually when the kids grow up and the working partner starts (rightly) complaining that the non-working partner starts to think it's unfair...

But regardless of who is being unreasonable here, your situation is precarious AF and you need to get your youngest into nursery and start earning a wage. If your DP does 50% of the family/ house chores then contribute toward bills, and if not then put that money aside so you have something to fall back on.

Unreasonabubble · 01/05/2021 01:14

Why don't women just bloody well get married before they have children? I must have been so old fashioned. I "dated" my husband for 9 years before he proposed. I did tell him "no marriage, no children". It took us 2 years after Marriage to conceive.

Why do women just not know that they have no rights if they are not married? You would think in this day and age, they are more clued up than they are.

Where are women's brains?

grapewine · 01/05/2021 01:16

It is so sad how many of these threads there are on here.

your situation is precarious AF and you need to get your youngest into nursery and start earning a wage. If your DP does 50% of the family/ house chores then contribute toward bills, and if not then put that money aside so you have something to fall back on.

Agree with this.

Bythemillpond · 01/05/2021 01:30

I don’t think the problem is whether op got married or not. I think the problem is her not being on the deeds to the house that was bought.

I think the only real way forward is to start working and saving. Get him to contribute towards the children, childcare etc and then leave and start again
I think it was when you put all your savings and time into something you don’t own that was the mistake.
Agree with a previous post that as soon as your youngest turns 18 you will be thrown out without anything.

Unreasonabubble · 01/05/2021 01:37

@Bythemillpond - I sort of agree. But NOT being married presents lots of problems.

Women of Mumsnet - reach out - educate your fellow woman.

No ring, no vows. He is just using you....

SympathyFatigue · 01/05/2021 01:38

@winched

When I read these types of threads on MN I always pretend I'm reading them as if you were a man.

Honestly I don't know.

Yes you seem to do the majority of the housework but he (I assume) works full time and pays for everything else? You paid for a £10k extension but I assume since there's no mortgage he's paid at least ten times that? Lots of the income your post is claiming as "yours" is actually really family money i.e CTC.

I'd be saying you were definitely not U if you'd given up your career for the children, but you didn't contribute anything for 2 years before having the kids?

I've been in both positions and found staying home with the children is much easier, especially as you must have had years with only two at school. People wonder why there are so many of these threads and so many women putting themselves in these (what seem to be, from outsiders perspective, daft and precarious) positions. The answer is clearly because most people jump at the chance to have everything taken care of financially for the price of weekly housework and looking after your own children. Why else would so many people do it if wasn't such a cushty deal? It's usually when the kids grow up and the working partner starts (rightly) complaining that the non-working partner starts to think it's unfair...

But regardless of who is being unreasonable here, your situation is precarious AF and you need to get your youngest into nursery and start earning a wage. If your DP does 50% of the family/ house chores then contribute toward bills, and if not then put that money aside so you have something to fall back on.

I agree. I'm I try to see it as a man rather than woman.

It reads like there was really no contribution for 2 years, then sahm then the past couple of years some sporadic wages.
It's hard to say yabu because some of it sounds crazy, like him sitting playing games while you home school.

I'd expect you to do the household lions share if you were at home and I was working, with 2 kids at school.
Did you want to get married?
Just quite an age gap between 8 and 3 year old to be putting up with an unhappy marriage

Hont1986 · 01/05/2021 01:39

I was just reading the other thread where most posters were insisting that one partner should have to pay rent towards the house-owning partner, so I guess in their eyes he is being generous for not charging you.

The financial setup doesn't sound completely unreasonable to me. He covers the rent/mortgage and most other household bills, including food. And you cover kid's clothes/uniforms, and presents? That seems like a fair enough split tbh.

The 90% housework/childcare is another story, but again it sounds like you were working part time compared to his full time, so I wouldn't expect a 50/50 split there.

I don't think you should have to pay rent though, I think it's weird when anyone makes their partner pay 'rent' on a house they own outright.

Gothichouse40 · 01/05/2021 01:40

I have to say, this is one reason I never would live with any man. They either want to marry me or they didn't. Sadly, Ive seen this situation so many times. Women move in, become the housemaid, servant, childcare and general dogsbody, but you are meant to be grateful they even bother with you. People may not like marriage, but it does give you and any children you might have a degree of protection as it's a legal contract. Ive heard too many times, oh it's just a bit of paper, but 10, 15 years down the line you may be grateful for the bit of paper as you do have rights. Why do women throw themselves away on these waste of spaces? My advice, take your children and tell him sorry, but he's the one who should have been more grateful. I know my view isn't fashionable or modern, but get married before you have children, not anything to do with morals/religion, but protection for yourself and your children. If a man won't commit, Im sorry but he's keeping his options open.

Onlinedilema · 01/05/2021 01:43

Agree with everyone else. You need to get a job. Why are you not on the deeds? Why are you not married?

Unreasonabubble · 01/05/2021 01:45

@Hont1986 - you are missing the point. She is not married to her DP. She has NO rights and he has no obligations towards her.

Startingagainperson · 01/05/2021 01:49

I did the same, completely and utterly trusted Ex. We could have moved into my house, but he didn’t want to move so I ended up in his. We both had mortgages, but in recession both our homes were in negative equity and I sold mine when I moved in (no profit). Didn’t talk finances as he asked me to marry him. We planned children but I ended up pregnant very quickly, but again, totally trusted him.

Fast forward 5 years. I paid rent before I went on maternity. He evades and evades marrying. Says he’ll put my name on the mortgage. Evades and evades. Our child disabled, I am unable to get back to work. House prices start to go up, his now worth a fair bit of equity (remember both of us had no equity at start).

He now wants out of the relationship. Says he was really pretty good letting me live rent free all of this time (when I had his child!).

I am screwed. I could have kept my home and had some security. Having to live in my poor mums tiny home soon while I somehow get high cost specialist childcare for disabled child and get a job to get a mortgage again.

We are both screwed. And the father of our kids are assholes. Sorry.

Startingagainperson · 01/05/2021 01:54

@Hont1986

I was just reading the other thread where most posters were insisting that one partner should have to pay rent towards the house-owning partner, so I guess in their eyes he is being generous for not charging you.

The financial setup doesn't sound completely unreasonable to me. He covers the rent/mortgage and most other household bills, including food. And you cover kid's clothes/uniforms, and presents? That seems like a fair enough split tbh.

The 90% housework/childcare is another story, but again it sounds like you were working part time compared to his full time, so I wouldn't expect a 50/50 split there.

I don't think you should have to pay rent though, I think it's weird when anyone makes their partner pay 'rent' on a house they own outright.

It is completely unfair as it is equating bringing up children as an inferior job to him having paid work. He would not have been able to work if she had not bought up the children. It is supposed to be a partnership, where both people work as a family unit.

Does she get to say ‘well I bought up the children so therefore they are mine and not yours’? No that would be absurd.

So why should he get to say ‘I paid for the home so it’s not yours’? Why is that less absurd than the first statement? Because it’s inequality in action.

minou123 · 01/05/2021 01:55

So bearing in mind all I do and have done, is it unreasonable of me to think that actually, I shouldn’t have to pay him a penny to live here? I shouldn’t be grateful for living here for free like it’s an amazing kindness from him, and that actually, he’s the unreasonable asshole here and should be grateful for everything I do

To answer your specific question, no you're not unreasonable and you shouldn't have to pay rent.

You've buy entered into a bit of a barter deal situation:
-he works, he pays for all living expenses, mortgage, electricity , council tax, Internet, etc
-you clean the house, look after the children.

This is the "non-legal" agreement you have entered into.
You shouldn't be grateful to him, but at the same token he shouldn't be grateful to you either for all the things you're done. You've both fulfilled you're ends of the "deal"

I don't mean to come across mean, and I'm trying not to kick you when you're down.

Startingagainperson · 01/05/2021 02:00

The answer is clearly because most people jump at the chance to have everything taken care of financially for the price of weekly housework and looking after your own children. Why else would so many people do it if wasn't such a cushty deal? Why are so many women so down on another woman being a parent herself and not paying a childminder - and saying that parenting is really cushy and easy?

So many people do it, so many women should we say, because they like being a parent and are good at it and because it’s really good for the kids and the family unit. Women often do what is best for everyone.

Why else would a woman give up her financial autonomy, her own pension, her ability for fulfillment in a career? Because she likes doing her nails while the children are at school? No most women work around the children’s needs, which means part-time, which means holidays, which means taking the lesser job just to ensure that happens.

Women, working or SAHM are both doing pretty amazing on the whole. But one set get far more screwed than the other. Especially the ones who aren’t married as they aren’t the ones, on teh whole, who are selfish and assertive enough to have protected themselves by marriage or kept their own full time job no matter what and did not give up a single sick day for the kids.

timeisnotaline · 01/05/2021 02:04

@winched

When I read these types of threads on MN I always pretend I'm reading them as if you were a man.

Honestly I don't know.

Yes you seem to do the majority of the housework but he (I assume) works full time and pays for everything else? You paid for a £10k extension but I assume since there's no mortgage he's paid at least ten times that? Lots of the income your post is claiming as "yours" is actually really family money i.e CTC.

I'd be saying you were definitely not U if you'd given up your career for the children, but you didn't contribute anything for 2 years before having the kids?

I've been in both positions and found staying home with the children is much easier, especially as you must have had years with only two at school. People wonder why there are so many of these threads and so many women putting themselves in these (what seem to be, from outsiders perspective, daft and precarious) positions. The answer is clearly because most people jump at the chance to have everything taken care of financially for the price of weekly housework and looking after your own children. Why else would so many people do it if wasn't such a cushty deal? It's usually when the kids grow up and the working partner starts (rightly) complaining that the non-working partner starts to think it's unfair...

But regardless of who is being unreasonable here, your situation is precarious AF and you need to get your youngest into nursery and start earning a wage. If your DP does 50% of the family/ house chores then contribute toward bills, and if not then put that money aside so you have something to fall back on.

Are you really saying you think she should be paying rent? Or grateful he lets her live there? Should she really sleep in a tent by the gate since she has to be on call 24 hours, he’s never done any night waking? Wake up early, come in from her tent and get the breakfast and washing started? Are you confusing her with an 18th century indentured slave? Lots of the income your post is claiming as "yours" is actually really family money i.e CTC. she buys everything for the dc. She needs the Ctc benefit.