What makes kids exclude other kids?

[garnierfruit]

When I was growing up I had a core group of friends however, depending on the day I would often be excluded from the group. Not allowed to play at break time, calling me names, not including me in sleepovers etc. We would always make up just for it to happen the next week yet I maintained that those were my friends and went through it until I started secondary school. I still remember being left out and it stung like a bitch.

It now seems to be happening to my daughter who is 7 (almost 8) in primary 3, in this friendship 'group' it seems to be her and two other girls and periodically the two other girls will leave her out, fall out with her etc. However, she does still have play dates with one of them and they get on fine during that.

I wonder if i am projecting my experiences on to my daughter but more frequently than not she will come home from school and say, 'me and friend had a fall out but I don't want to talk about it' so I never get details and it is always the same friend, she doesn't fall out with anyone else. Whenever I suggest playing with another group of kids she maintains that this girl is her best friend.

What causes these issues in specifically girls? Is it an issue with the person that's being left out? Or an issue with the person leaving them out? Do ALL children go through this? I just find it strange that we've both had the same type of experience.

I think it’s a power play. There was a girl in my daughter’s class all through primary who was foul to most of the girls at various times right from the first week of reception,
Including my daughter. It took years but I basically had to “train” my daughter to stop giving a shit about what this girl said or did and when it eventually worked it was beautiful- daughter was so much more confident.

The girl seemed to pick her “victims” based on wanting to bring them down a peg or 2. Someone had shoes bully girl wanted first? “We’re not talking to Alice (not real name) because her shoes are the worst” someone has a new hair style they liked? “Eww we can’t be seen with Charlotte because her hair is soooo ugly!” Other times I think it was because the victim was having a good day and really happy and the bully didn’t like that.

'Careful! You're about to be abused of "victim blaming" by the women on this thread who think that excluded students are actually entirely perfect and the excluders are all just horrible people because they have abusive and/or divorced parents'

What?! Surely titmouse has given an example of how badly some teachers handle these situations and 'reasons' for excluding are usually fickle crap.

Teachers need to get their arses in gear and not stupidly ask a class 'why don't you like this person' but actually use strategies to improve the excluded persons confidence and clamp down on the excluder ruling the roost.

We had one teacher keep an excluded person in at break time so they felt safe and secure, asking a whole class who'd sit in with them 🙄. Now if that were me I'd have kept whichever smartness was making their lives miserable in at break time.

@IncorrigibleTitmouse

When I was 9 the teachers took a girl who was constantly excluded out to the library then staged an ‘intervention’ with the entire class. The school I went to was a very ordinary suburban state primary. The teachers asked “why is no one friends with Girl A?” I still remember the answers from the brazen few who spoke up to this day: She farts in class. She wears babyish clothes. She picks her nose. She doesn’t know any Take That songs.

The poor kid was moved out of school before the next school year started. I often wonder what became of her. Kids are that simple sometimes.

I was in a friendship foursome in high school and we definitely had a queen bee. She was incredibly manipulative and spiteful, but I didn’t recognise that until I was about 15.

I probably wouldn't go out of my way to befriend someone who farted and picked their nose a lot in my presence.

Yes i think some people have a hierarchy in their head and they try to put in their place the people they fear are coming up to their level. They kiss up to those above them as those people can validate them, and they're blind to people they deem to be so far beneath them they"re no threat at all. But if they think you're at their heels, god help you.

Two women have in different groups set out to exclude me, and both times, to begin with, i had thought the woman was quite like me and was open to friendship.

Ive had a crash course in covert scapegoating narcissism in the last 5 years.

The 2 women who did this to me had never met but there were text book parallels.

I learnt a lot.

I think in this thread there are two different kinds of excluding going on, and it's useful not to conflate them. There's "the kid NO ONE ever plays with who's ALWAYS alone" kind and then there's the "Sally and Mindy say they won't play with me today even though we're supposed to all be best friends" kind.

@MarcelinesMa

I think it’s a power play. There was a girl in my daughter’s class all through primary who was foul to most of the girls at various times right from the first week of reception, Including my daughter. It took years but I basically had to “train” my daughter to stop giving a shit about what this girl said or did and when it eventually worked it was beautiful- daughter was so much more confident.

The girl seemed to pick her “victims” based on wanting to bring them down a peg or 2. Someone had shoes bully girl wanted first? “We’re not talking to Alice (not real name) because her shoes are the worst” someone has a new hair style they liked? “Eww we can’t be seen with Charlotte because her hair is soooo ugly!” Other times I think it was because the victim was having a good day and really happy and the bully didn’t like that.

I think if you can do that you have given her a great life skill. Took me maybe until year 9 in high school but I basically had to train myself as I didn't talk about it with my parents about bullying very much. Once you don't care about what other people think who couldn't care a less about hurting your feelings then you do find some good friends. Friends who were never the popular kids but at least they were genuine . It also taught me not to be so judgemental of what most would judge as the the weird kid. Kids really do it most of the time because others do it.

@SonnyWinds I knew exactly what you meant with your list. Kids were terrible to me for reasons they told me to my face. You’re weird, your Mum is weird, you’re a swot, you’re ugly, etc.

Maybe the teachers didn’t handle it well, but teaching and parenting are both very different now than they were in 1992 when this incident occurred! Both parents and teachers were way less hands-on. I’m not saying any of it was right, but kids are bullied in different ways now. This is incredibly outing, but in Y7 I was hit in the face with half a brick and in Y8 a kid put a cigarette out on my face. The kids involved were required to write me a letter of apology and no more was said or done about it.

Perhaps some of the girls just aren’t that friendly? I had similar issues with my daughter and I brushed it off a lot at first “girls being girls” etc.

In the end i moved her to a different primary school and she’s never had “girl issues” since. She just clicks a lot better with the girls in her new primary school. The odd minor thing but no where near the level of bitchiness she used to put up with.

The OP says her dd not playing with a girl at school because she's weird is fine because she said it to the OP not the child- do you really think children don't notice that your dd will only play with the child when there isn't someone "better" to play with? The other child will definitely realise and all the other children at school will too. Don't really understand why you needed to start a thread to find out why some children exclude others when your daughter has given you a very clear reason why she excludes other children

You're about to be abused of "victim blaming" by the women on this thread who think that excluded students are actually entirely perfect

Of course they're not perfect but they're no more imperfect than the girls who exclude them.

It is never ok to bully someone based on for example what they wear, their hair colour, the music they listen to or the fact that they enjoy a non-fashionable past-time. I got bullied for having a music-related badge on my school-bag. And when I took it off as a result, I was bullied again (for being a wimp I guess). Whatever you do, you're wrong. I wonder why kids feel so threatened by difference. At least by the time you get to about 16 they are a bit more tolerant and can cope with their school-mates eg wearing glasses or liking "square" music.

[quote IncorrigibleTitmouse]@SonnyWinds I knew exactly what you meant with your list. Kids were terrible to me for reasons they told me to my face. You’re weird, your Mum is weird, you’re a swot, you’re ugly, etc.

Maybe the teachers didn’t handle it well, but teaching and parenting are both very different now than they were in 1992 when this incident occurred! Both parents and teachers were way less hands-on. I’m not saying any of it was right, but kids are bullied in different ways now. This is incredibly outing, but in Y7 I was hit in the face with half a brick and in Y8 a kid put a cigarette out on my face. The kids involved were required to write me a letter of apology and no more was said or done about it.[/quote]
That's horrendous

@SonnyWinds

I'm a teacher - I teach secondary so slightly older but here's my experience of reasons why girls would regularly exclude one from the group.

1. They smell bad.
2. They talk too much or say weird things.
3. They're nasty and say nasty things.
4. Their parents are invasive/controlling
5. They can't keep secrets
6. They steal boys (some girls, even in Y7 will pursue any boy they know their friend fancies).
7. They eat weird food
8. They're wearing something embarrassing - usually bright red lipstick or a big flower in their hair.
9. They aren't actually friends with the girl but the girl follows them around a lot.

10. They have a party/event coming up with limited spaces/tickets and this girl isn't invited. 11. She reacts in a funny or dramatic way to being excluded or picked on. I have a student who completely flips out if her name is shortened (like Steph for Stephanie). So her friends do it ALL THE TIME because it's funny that she flips out. 12. She cries at almost nothing or is generally a drama queen. 13. They suck up to teachers or get others in trouble. 14. They're a "weak" child to start with so easy to victimise for a power boost (usually smaller, quieter, skinny etc). 15. They can't use technology or communicate with their friends outside of school 16. They aren't up to date on whatever the hot topic is (a TV show or a YouTube post or a new game etc) so they have nothing to contribute to the discussion.

There are way more reasons than this. In my experience, it goes in a circle though. Very rarely is one child excluded and not the others in the group - you just won't notice because you only really acknowledge it happening to you or someone you care about.

I hope you are writing this in a flippant way to show how nasty it is.

[quote SonnyWinds]**@IncorrigibleTitmouse* When I was 9 the teachers took a girl who was constantly excluded out to the library then staged an ‘intervention’ with the entire class. The school I went to was a very ordinary suburban state primary. The teachers asked “why is no one friends with Girl A?” I still remember the answers from the brazen few who spoke up to this day:
She farts in class.
She wears babyish clothes.
She picks her nose.
She doesn’t know any Take That songs.

The poor kid was moved out of school before the next school year started. I often wonder what became of her. Kids are that simple sometimes.*

Careful! You're about to be abused of "victim blaming" by the women on this thread who think that excluded students are actually entirely perfect and the excluders are all just horrible people because they have abusive and/or divorced parents. [/quote]
Sonny, you're making this worse.

I hope you are writing this in a flippant way to show how nasty it is.
Flippant? . It's an objective list based on observation. Why are you hoping it's flippant? That is very strange.

Ironic that on a thread about bullying there are personal attacks against Sonny. I have reported one of them.

Stop making personal and offensive comments people! You can criticise the post or the behaviour but it is NOT ok to call someone vile or tell them that they should not be a teacher.

@GreyhoundG1rl

I hope you are writing this in a flippant way to show how nasty it is. Flippant? . It's an objective list based on observation. Why are you hoping it's flippant? That is very strange.

As in, sonny doesn't actually think these things are ok to say

As in, sonny doesn't actually think these things are ok to say
This has been done to death already. Of course that list wasn't a User Manual for bullies 🙄

@GreyhoundG1rl

As in, sonny doesn't actually think these things are ok to say This has been done to death already. Of course that list wasn't a User Manual for bullies 🙄

I posted that before I rtft. That okay with you?

I posted that before I rtft. That okay with you?

Strange thing to do.

It is never what someone does that is 'wrong'. The list of 'faults' always lies with the excluder, the harasser, the abuser.

Don't be ridiculous.

I choose my friends, or choose who I want to spend my time with, because I like that person / those people.
I choose to not spend time with people who are aggressive. People who are racist. People who are sexist. People who can't complete a sentence without f-ing and blinding. People who think it is funny to make other people feel uncomfortable.

I really don't think that leaves me ""at fault, for choosing not to invite someone whose company I don't enjoy to something.
What an odd way to look at life

Christ SonnyWinds are you really a teacher??

@Chillychangchoo

Perhaps some of the girls just aren’t that friendly? I had similar issues with my daughter and I brushed it off a lot at first “girls being girls” etc.

In the end i moved her to a different primary school and she’s never had “girl issues” since. She just clicks a lot better with the girls in her new primary school. The odd minor thing but no where near the level of bitchiness she used to put up with.

Exactly. Some children just aren't very nice; there is not always something "wrong" with the person being excluded.

@Butwasitherdriveway ignore @GreyhoundG1rl, she's been at it all day.

[quote changeyourusername1]**@Butwasitherdriveway* ignore @GreyhoundG1rl*, she's been at it all day. [/quote]
Excuse me?