What makes kids exclude other kids?

[garnierfruit]

When I was growing up I had a core group of friends however, depending on the day I would often be excluded from the group. Not allowed to play at break time, calling me names, not including me in sleepovers etc. We would always make up just for it to happen the next week yet I maintained that those were my friends and went through it until I started secondary school. I still remember being left out and it stung like a bitch.

It now seems to be happening to my daughter who is 7 (almost 8) in primary 3, in this friendship 'group' it seems to be her and two other girls and periodically the two other girls will leave her out, fall out with her etc. However, she does still have play dates with one of them and they get on fine during that.

I wonder if i am projecting my experiences on to my daughter but more frequently than not she will come home from school and say, 'me and friend had a fall out but I don't want to talk about it' so I never get details and it is always the same friend, she doesn't fall out with anyone else. Whenever I suggest playing with another group of kids she maintains that this girl is her best friend.

What causes these issues in specifically girls? Is it an issue with the person that's being left out? Or an issue with the person leaving them out? Do ALL children go through this? I just find it strange that we've both had the same type of experience.

HowManyToes

You are querying how and why kids think. Of course the adults here don’t agree with the kid’s thought process.

Girls are a lot harder with friends etc than what boys are imo.

Oh how true, boys will have a punch-up and it's over, best friends tomorrow, girls will drag it out for weeks, months, years. Yes, it is a generalisation, before someone gets on their high horse, but at least it based on long experience rather than box-ticking.

@JudgeJ

Girls are a lot harder with friends etc than what boys are imo.

Oh how true, boys will have a punch-up and it's over, best friends tomorrow, girls will drag it out for weeks, months, years. Yes, it is a generalisation, before someone gets on their high horse, but at least it based on long experience rather than box-ticking.

I'd agree with that.

Well said @AreWeShafted

It's akin to banging your head against a brick wall here, with the number of posters who pile in without reading all that has been written before them, and explained over and over again in the thread for those who have struggled to understand Sonny's post in the first place.

Excellent reply Sonny.

Sorry, I copied without noting which poster wrote :
I found an issue was some teachers agreed with what’s on that ‘list’ and were complicit on some level, raising eyebrows at the oversensitivity of the child etc

I also agree with this - teachers often don't help and actually facilitate the bullying by victim blaming.

Helping an excluded person to understand why people might not want to spend time with them is not 'victim blaming'. It is helping their self awareness and giving them a choice as to whether they wish to make some changes so that they fit in more, or, equally valid, if they want to make a statement and do / wear / say /act differently and make that stand. Both are valid ,when you consciously choose to do either. I suggest that most people find a compromise in life and makes a 'stand' and be different for things that are important and 'go with the flow' a bit more in other situations to make life easier. Children are learning to live as part of society, and it is good that they learn to judge when 'fitting in to the norm' is important and when 'standing up against what everyone else is doing' is important.

However, one of the most helpful things we can do, as parents, is to encourage our dc to have lots of different friends - opportunities to mix with lots of people and not rely on one or two children that they are desperate to be friends with.

Sonny did not say she agreed they were good reasons - but listed the reason kids exclude others at that age.

And it's true.

You can perfectly like someone to chat to for a 45 minute lunch break. But find them too much for a 15-20 hour sleepover.

That neither means that person has to change who they are nor does it mean you have to include people in social situations you feel tiring to have around.

It's the same as adulthood.

I have selection of good friends. Some I can chat to for hours on a weekly basis and it's relaxed and easy going.

Some I can chat to but monthly or every few months.

I also have some who are perfectly nice and we have a good time but a meal and drinks for a few hours a few times a year is enough for me.

Also the 2's company and 3's a crowd is very true. I find it much easier to chat to one other person than follow the opinions of 2-3 or more and come up with reasonable responses!

I think you have to encourage your child to find a group they fit more easily into. Explain it's nothing to do with them negatively but people fit better with others.

You've said sometimes your DD has play dates with one of the other girls just the 2 of them. So does she fit into the group fine with 3 but the other 2 are closer? Or is the 1 she also hangs out with the easiest of the 3 to get along with and both girls find it easier 1:1 with her or does she find it easier 1:1 with them?

Being excluded is a horrible feeling and can cause issues that they'll carry for the rest of their life. Telling OP that there's nothing at all she could do and that her daughter is an entirely flawless victim so she should reflect and see if there's anything she can do is condemning her daughter to a shit load of pain and suffering.

Yes. Yes to the rest of it as well.

@AnnaSW1

Nah to *@SonnyWinds* list. It al about the excluder's issues not the excluded

Absolutely and for it to come from a teacher

I think they forgot the main one, some kids are just unpleasant. Poor parenting usually results in poor, attention seeking behaviour. It's usually the most insecure kid that behave the worst, putting others down to boost their own ego.

Also poor teaching. Many enable this behaviour by allowing the nasty kids to control them too.

As I teacher it's quite shocking that sony thinks it's simply because someone smells or is a drama queen. Jesus.

1. They smell bad.
Can't someone explain this and help support with offering solutions to stop this happening?
That’s the parents job. Nobody else can do anything to help if the parent is saying “I’m not paying for deodorant and you’re not allowed to shave”.

And another one... . Maybe some of you left school too early?!

I was one of the kids who often got excluded at school. It was shit, and I couldn't understand at the time what was wrong with me.

With hindsight, I can see that it was mainly due to a lack of good social skills. I'm not saying that this is the cause of the problems in every case, but I do think it is true in many of them. It's sad. But kids are often their own worst enemies.

Lack of confidence and insecurity are also major factors in my view.

@Ariannah

1. They smell bad. Can't someone explain this and help support with offering solutions to stop this happening? That’s the parents job. Nobody else can do anything to help if the parent is saying “I’m not paying for deodorant and you’re not allowed to shave”.

To be fair, teachers regularly mention to parents that they might want to purchase deodorant or have a word - they never do. A lot of parents think deodorant is for "grown ups" and their 10 year old doesn't need it. It would have to be at the stage where teachers are noticing (which is well after the time that kids notice) but it does get brought up if it's getting to toxic levels.

What exactly have you failed to grasp here, Janiie?
Sonny has even posted a follow up for those at the back who weren't listening first time?

Btw, these children are not neglected, from "broken homes" or "bad parenting". It's 99.9% of children that I've encountered engage in this kind of behaviour and the 0.01% who don't have a complete inability to interact at all.
OP's admitted herself that her little angel excluded another child for "being weird".

@SonnyWinds, that's so sad that parents won't help even when it's highlighted to them.

@DuckonaBike

Sonny’s list is saddening but probably true. And I’m not sure why people are blaming her for using her powers of observation.

It’s good to have friends outside school and mix in different groups.

So true. Why the hell are people accusing Sonny of being horrible? It’s so depressing. Understanding or observing something is NOT the same as condoning it. Why is this difficult to understand?

@GreyhoundG1rl you seem to be Sonny's no.1 fan. It isnt just me that can't 'grasp' it. Rtft, most people are calling out her bizarre list.

For an alleged secondary school teacher to spout such a silly list is worrying.

Kids excuse others because they are insecure and need to be calling the shots. They boost their own confidence by knocking others. This is very basic stuff.

Exclude*

teachers regularly mention to parents that they might want to purchase deodorant or have a word - they never do
I remember my PE teacher telling my mum on parents evening that the girls were picking on my hairy legs. And my mum earnestly saying that the girls who shaved their legs were stupid because it makes the hair thicker, and she wouldn’t allow me to make that mistake. And the PE teacher rolling her eyes and shrugging.

GreyhoundG1rlyou seem to be Sonny's no.1 fan. It isnt just me that can't 'grasp' it. Rtft, most people are calling out her bizarre list.
Really, no.
Are we reading the same thread?

I find it interesting how friendships change over the years. I'm in my 60s and when I was at school we all tended to have 1 best friend. You didn't really have the girl groups you see now. I honestly can't think of any bullying when I was at at secondary school but primary school was different.

Greenslide, I'm not telling myself anything as it is certainly true IME as a Mum to a 9 year old, who are you to tell me what my experiences are! There are friendship groups of girls in DD's class that gravitate towards each other depending on their interests and life experiences. My DD's group tend to be artistic, musical, creative and none of them have mobile phones. There is another group of girls that have phones, have started to be interested in fashion etc. However, these are 9/10 year olds, it was not the case at 7. How can you argue that family background, outlook doesn't have an impact on the reasons for excluding children in friendship groups. The values of parents are going to be held by the children at this age, they are not teenagers. I have a teenager and that's a different ball game as they are becoming their own person and may stray from the values their parents have. Ultimately though teenagers that try to conform to expectations of peers so that they don't get picked on are a bit dull and this loses it's appeal in the mid to later teens- it's not cool to be a sheep.

How have you been insulted, op?

Ah, a thread about bullying full of adults with poor reading comprehension bullying poster.

Children can be really cruel, any child can be cruel, I’m well aware that my son is very likely to be exposed to nastiness etc, I’m also aware that one day he could be the child being nasty. I think that is also a big issue, lots of parents are in denial and genuinely convince themselves that their child would never be unkind, mean, nasty etc.

When I was at school the biggest no no was being in any way different to the norm. Being smelly, scruffy, having a slightly different accent, being a red head, being fat etc. Children will identify any difference or possible weakness. I was the only brown boy at my primary and secondary school, I was also the only one at secondary school in a turban, the only thing that reduced bullying at secondary school was the fact that I was tall, a rugby player and my friends had what was considered high social status. Other children weren’t as lucky, one of my friends was retentlessly bullied because he had CP.