Absolutely fuming - in laws

[I8toys]

I just need to calm down before I take it out on my husband.

In laws are looking to downsize to our area - that's another thread on its own - not happy about it.

Heard a conversation between dh and them last night about popping around and parking outside our house whilst they went for a wander around the area. I said remind them I'm working please - ie don't knock on or come in. Oh that's okay we've got a flask they said.

Just finished a zoom with my boss and the door goes. Husband is at work. A delivery and my fil standing behind the delivery driver. WTF. Can we go the little boys room mil asks. What can I say no! So she goes to the downstairs loo and then they proceed to enter the house and wander around - looking in the garden. Still made no attempt to leave so to be polite I had to offer a cup of tea as they were here so long. Then they mentioned lunch but luckily it was too early.

So there I am answering emails whilst fil just chats away about eff all. They would never do this with my husband and his job but its as if they don't respect I'm working but just at home. It maybe an age thing.

I didn't say anything because I thought WTF but they aren't even supposed to be in my house. We're not in a bubble. They have had both jabs but I haven't. They could give it to me.

Am I overreacting?

I think all you needed to say was - ‘help yourself I’m in the other room on a call. If I don’t see you on your way out I’ll catch up with you another time’. I wonder if they came in for the loo (us oldies sometimes have weak bladders) and then dithered about a bit because they didn’t want to be rude and wee and run? Maybe they thought they would take their cue off you... you all sound a bit too polite to each other. Family should just be able to be honest and say, yes use the loo but then bugger off as I’m working

I assume you're really fuming with yourself because you could have handled this so much better.

My parents don’t even phone me during the day because they know I am working from home. They wouldn’t dream of turning up on the doorstep

YANBU to be pissed off at them

YABU for not telling them that it was not convenient

@Chic - exactly! I am.

@merrygoround88

Do people really think it’s acceptable to refuse old people the use of a bathroom and not quickly make them a cup of tea before you go up to the office.

Personally, I would find that just so disrespectful

As disrespectful as being told not to call and then do just that? It's one thing if they needed the loo but they should have left after they'd used it. They had been told that op was working so it was disrespectful of them to intrude on her working day.

All of those who are saying you're over-reacting clearly don't work from home. It's not just answering a few emails with a bit of daytime telly thrown in FFS. However you should have been firmer with them in my opinion.

I don't think OP is over reacting in regards them being disrespectful of her job......

But I'm a bit and why she seemed so insistent before they even arrived that they shouldn't knock on and was so put out that they asked to use the toilet?

If I knew my in laws were in the area (I assume from OPs posts they live a reasonable distance way?) I would probably have asked what time they were arriving, cleared an hour in my diary and arranged for them to pop in for a cuppa and catch up about how their house search was going..... and I certainly wouldn't need my DH there to do this!

But hey this is MN, we're all supposed to dislike our PILs

@chocolatesaltyballs22

All of those who are saying you're over-reacting clearly don't work from home. It's not just answering a few emails with a bit of daytime telly thrown in FFS. However you should have been firmer with them in my opinion.

I work from home, I’d let them in, have a chat and say I needed to get back to work. I’d not invite them to stay and have coffee with me.

@stackemhigh

hey would never do this with my husband and his job but its as if they don't respect I'm working but just at home. It maybe an age thing

This is ageist.

Attributing specific (undesirable) behaviour to their age.

Have you heard of ask culture vs guess culture? I think it's a useful model for understanding what happened here and how to deal with it.

Imagine there was a plate of cookies on the table. The host hasn't mentioned them yet, and you've been sat arount the table with drinks for 20 minutes now.

The guest who grew up in a guess culture would never dream of asking for a cookie - they feel that it is rude, the cookies might be for the host's children when they come home from school, they fear that they would be seen as rude and presumptious for asking if they can have a cookie. If they do ever ask for a cookie, they look for all sorts of clues that it's probably meant for them and that the host won't be offended and will definitely say yes, before asking. "So the cookies are on the table we are sitting at - that's hopeful. Cookies go with coffee and tea, right? and it is elevenses time. And there are side plates that the host brought out and put in front of us. Maybe the cookies are meant for me after all. Hmm. but I wouldn't want to appear rude. I will pretend I haven't noticed them and if she hasn't offered in 5 minutes time maybe I might generally enquire as to the existence of cookies and their intended destination, in a really indirect and polite manner..."

Meanwhile guest number two is from ask culture. Maybe they grew up with 8 siblings, and if you didn't ask who the cookies were for and take one right now, there wouldn't be any left later on. Guest number two thinks there's absolutely nothing wrong with mentioning the cookies and asking if they are for us, it's not rude, and the host can always say no after all.

Nobody is right or wrong, it's just different cultures. Whether the host is a bit miffed or happy to be asked, depends on if they are from guess or ask culture themselves.

In the OP scenario, I'd guess that FIL is from an ask culture. Why wouldn't he ask if he can use the loo, it's only 5 minutes surely DIL won't mind but if she does she can always say so. Why wouldn't be ask for lunch, she can always say no. I8toys is behaving much more ask if she's from a guess culture. She'd have listened to the information that the "host" was working and thought much more deeply about the consequences. She'd have certainly used that information in deciding if it was okay to ask to use the loo, and if desperate and there was no discrete bush to pee behind she might ask to use the loo but would almost certainly have left straight away unless a very warm welcome was extended. She would be reading the host's body language all the time for clues about not overstaying her welcome.

When I learnt about this, things made so much more sense to me - and I also became more comfortable with becoming an asker not just a guesser, although I still read the room and revert to guess culture if I'm obviously in the presence of guess culture people. I'll tell you something for free though - the askers get more of what they want in life.

yes you overreacted on this but can understand your anxiety about them moving near you.

Why are they moving close to you? It sounds like your children are / or will be doing their own thing soon. Is it so you and DH can help?

The problem is that if they are in their 80s, it is extremely unlikely their behaviour will change.

Do you think they will be OK with ground rules? You can't just pop round, I need to work etc

@I8toys

The reason I offered a drink was because I had a cup of coffee in my hand and they weren't looking in the slightest as if they were going to leave. You're right about mixed signals.

The thing is if I said I was busy they'd just come back with its okay leave us until you're finished.

Give me some stock phrases to use next time please.

You've got to be blunt with this type of entitled person. Knock at the door? Can you peep out and if it's them, don't answer. It was a delivery so you answered, ask to use the toilet? Hesitate. Look away. Be awkward. Say "sure, if its just the toilet because I'm working". Wandering around your home after? Break away from your desk say "Right, you done? Got to kick you out now, sorry, I'm working" and walk to the door, hold it open, smile and wave them goodbye.

If they turn up unanounced and DP isn't home and you don't feel like socialising, either:

Don't answer the door. You're not obligated to be available just because you're home, you're allowed to be busy and not want to stop what you're doing.

Or open the door say "Hi DP isn't here right now. You ok? It's not a good time, I'm in the middle of something. It's best if you text in future if you're planning to drop by" (which means you can tell them No, if you want to) and keep them on the doorstep. Don't invite them in, be awkward. They need to feel the awkwardness of the situation.

You can also invite in for a cuppa then kick them out after half hour when everyone has finished, just say "right I've got to get cracking now, lots to do, it's been lovely to see you" and walk to the door.

If they try to prolong leaving by using conversation, then give monosyllabic answers to questions or just hmmm, don't ask them any questions or comment on anything they say. If they start a long drawn out anecdote, interrupt before it gets going to say "sorry, I really do have to go or I'll be late to meet my (imaginary) friend, lovely to see you, take care".

Then when you do socialize with them make sure you show good interest in what their lives are, so they don't think you're being off with them in general and they'll start to understand it's them turning up unannounced for visiting that's the problem.

Don't feel bad about any of this, they're being CF assuming you're always there to entertain them and making hints about lunch is just .

Seems a bit of an overreaction only because you should have avoided it all. Yes pop to the loo but then I need you out as said before I’m working’ or similar. Cheery goodbye ‘see you soon’. Door shut.

Good luck setting boundaries with ILs like that. I had the same- they used to drive 1.5 hours and invite themselves in. Then expect their tea. All the time. We told them to stop.
They had an emergency key and we took that off them. They weren't to be bested and kept coming so I eventually got DH to tell them yet again they had to ask first. So when they did and I said I had someone round that afternoon and wasn't available, they turned up anyway and peeked inside the windows to see if I was telling the truth.
Which was v embarrassing when I was sitting there with a friend going over some accounts. They then ran away. It only stopped when FIL died.
They saw it as a battle of wills with me and would never have dared if DH had been at home.
I have told DH if his mother moves near us I am moving out because she has a brass neck on her.

To add:

Peoople from ask cultures are much more comfortable with both giving and receiving a "no" than people from guess cultures. They don't add the implied social stuff to it that people from guess cultures, do. People from guess cultures are mortified if they receive a "no" because they think it means that they didn't read the room well enough and should never have asked. People from guess cultures also have to give a "no" (so often say yes when they would rather have meant no) because they want to spare the asker the embarrassment they assume they will feel, when they receive a no.

@BillyTodd my mind is blown. I’m a guess culture person and sometimes think askers are rude but this explains it all!!

[quote I8toys]@MrsClatterbuck - They are nearly 80 and 1 brother who lives a couple of hours away but they could easily move there also.

I said to dh your brother isn't having this issue. That's because they don't like SIL and she disappears when they arrive.[/quote]
Your SIL has it right.

You need to take a leaf out of her book .

Will you be too polite to refuse to become their carer when they need one?

@SnoozyBoozy

I think yabu if only because as an adult, surely you are capable of saying 'by all means use the loo, but I'm working right now so can't chat, but we'll catch up another time'...

You can't offer them a cup of tea and then complain they got in your way! This is on you really.

Completely this! ^^^

If you didn't want them there you shouldn't have offered them tea or anything else. You should have said "You can use the guest WC/downstairs loo but as I'm at work and I'm due into an online meeting, we'll have to delay our chat to a time that DH is here and we're allowed have friends and family in our houses again. You can let yourself out" and then leave them to it.
Check that they have left about 10 mins later and if they haven't, repeat the above and kick them out.

@merrygoround88

Do people really think it’s acceptable to refuse old people the use of a bathroom and not quickly make them a cup of tea before you go up to the office.

Personally, I would find that just so disrespectful

@merrygoround88 I find it very very disrespectful and rude to turn up to someone's place of employment and expect them to stop their work, get up and make them a cup of tea! Why are you so disrespectful of the OP and her place of work and her performing her job?

No you’re not. They clearly don’t respect that your work is valuable.

Or open the door say "Hi DP isn't here right now. You ok? It's not a good time, I'm in the middle of something. It's best if you text in future if you're planning to drop by" (which means you can tell them No, if you want to) and keep them on the doorstep. Don't invite them in, be awkward. They need to feel the awkwardness of the situation.

Yes, this x100!!

So often people who are too nice will tie themselves in knots to not let other people feel the natural consequences of their actions; i.e awkward, embarassed or ashamed. When we stop doing that, we are making good progress to stopping being such doormats.

It is not our responsibility to protect others from their own feelings that are a natural consequence of their actions/the social situation. Actually, it is important that we learn how to allow other people to feel awkward in our presence, so that they start doing some of the work of not trampling your boundaries.

Use of loo of course. As for tea - she’s working ffs and told them so. She wasn’t there to entertain them and they knew it.

Yes why didn't you just tell them you were busy

Hang on.
You 'think they have a key.'? Why don't you know?
And take it off them!

If it happens again be breezy: 'sure, you know where the loo is,' and go back to your desk while you wait. Then walk towards the door: 'Nice to see you, back to work now, no rest for the wicked ha ha.'

And no, obviously you're not overreacting.

They ignored boundaries. But you suggested a cuppa. If they won't back off, you need to toughen up.