Email from school about DD

[Thoughtsfortheday]

This isn’t really an AIBU and more of a pondering but seemed the best place to put it.

Had an email from the school yesterday (from tutor teacher) about concern for daughters behaviour, being late to tutor in the morning with no good reasons and also constant breeches of school uniform and being difficult (in front of tutor and head of year) when asked to resolve. (for context grey oversized hoodie with sleeves rolled up on top of blazer, tie not tightened, necklaces on top of shirt etc nothing revolutionary,)

Just to be clear I was absolutely mortified when I received it and was really cross with her last night, and she has had her phone and iPad taken off her and I have cancelled a sleepover she had planned for this weekend.

My slight pondering/AIBU (which I absolutely have not shared with my DD) is I feel it must be quite tricky to be a teenage girl atm, the world is pushing us not to conform anymore, encouraging women to wear and say what they want, to be able to express ourselves without judgement and identify as we please, great, I’m a big believer! School then however is the polar opposite, with rules, no room for fluidity, a one shape fits all approach.

The reason that she’s been late to class this week is due to a heavy flow period and wanting to change her pad at the last moment before going into a double hour class. She said she had explained this to her teacher but they have deemed this unacceptable.

I have spoke to her about good timekeeping and how she has plenty of time to do this and get along to class but a little bit of me (granted the bias DM) thinks give her a break.

Sorry for the rambling, I have a phone meeting with the school this morning and just trying to work out which approach to take.

You try and heard 30 kids into a class ready to start and have to wait for late comers and restart the session.

Uniform is uniform that you agreed to, the children who don’t confirm are often the trouble makers, and this is the first push back. She’ll either confirm or it will escalate into more bad behaviors.

I would add, you either support the school or go against the school.

Currently they are communicating with you, so her attitude must be poor, minor issues often are overlooked and ignored.

Hmm, I think you need to enter this call more willing to accept that your daughter might have been behaving badly.

While I do think schools can go OTT on some things, in the world of work I have to have a uniform, and I need to be neat, tidy and presentable, I couldn't wear a hoodie underneath or on top of my smart jacket, I wouldn't be allowed visible jewelry apart from small earrings etc. So I'd get her to comply with those, they're not being overly strict with that.

I wouldn't cancel the sleepover after the crappy year they've been through.

Nope. What will set your DD up for a lifetime of misery will be if you give her the impression that the rules don’t really apply for her. Your daughter has all the time in the world to express herself - but not when she’s meant to be wearing the correct uniform. She will also need to learn to manage her period for the next 30 years without being late for things.

There are always gong to be rules in life, whether you agree with them or not. They are there for the general good of all, and unfortunately it needs to be one size fits all. I like 'express myself' by driving in the bus lane, but no thats not allowed, apparently

As a teacher and Head of Year my read of this is that the issue isn’t the being late/uniform issues but the way that your DD is reacting when being pulled up about these things by her tutor, she needs to just fix the uniform issues without arguments when she gets pulled up on then and be polite about it, and I doubt you would have any issues.

On another note having periods so heavy that she is worried about lasting through a double lesson is extremely heavy, has she spoken to a doctor about how heavy they are, they might be able to help?

I would say that the school wouldn't have contacted you unless they felt it absolutely necessary otherwise they'd be contacting most parents daily! So perhaps it's been happening regularly or escalating. As a teacher, there's a lot to said for spotting these types of things early on and 'nipping it in the bud', and the support of parents makes this possible. Usually for children like your daughter this is enough to just make sure it doesn't escalate and will do them a favour in the long run!
The part about changing her pad before the lesson - it might be worth speaking to the teacher about this. A parent made a complaint about me for the same reason and the child had failed to mention the rest of the story to the parents!
I know it can feel dreadful for a parent (and child) when their behaviour has otherwise been good but that's a good thing. You obviously care and it's important that your daughter knows it's not acceptable.

Just to clarify these are just thoughts and the complete opposite of how I dealt with DD who is now not talking to me, thinks the the whole world hates her and has gone to school with her face tripping her in the correct school attire and has been told to apologise to all teachers involved.

Op I've had the same ponderings re how school has a mould kids have to fit into. Uniform is fine my personal bugbear is hair, give them a bit of self expression for gods sake.
Regarding the heavy flow being the reason for being late, I'd back my daughter 100% on this. She isn't in control of her flow, she could have suffered a gushing so had no option but to go to the toilet then and with this response it doesn't sound like they would have let her leave during the lesson.
If ask for a toilet pass if she suffers heavy periods so she can leave lessons and I'd suggest the school have some understanding of biology and the needs of young girls entering puberty.
Uniform you need to tell her to toe the line, low level disruption must be a nightmare for teachers to manage.

As for the reply "you agreed to the uniform" really did we have a choice? I don't know about you but I have no choice but to go to my catchment school so the uniform policy agreement is a useless agreement as you have no choice and to pretend you do is pathetic. I know the reply will be you can home school but no I can't for a plethora of reasons and I think there should be some give and take. I see some schools have been using students to help update their uniforms so they have a hoodie rather than blaster or normal jumper and I believe this sort of approach will encourage students to toe the line.

Teenage girls are pretty good (and always have been) at expressing themselves within the parameters of the uniform code.
At DD's school rolling up your skirt (and of course rolling it down if anyone points out it is not knee length) is still a thing, and they also stretch the bounds of how much makeup and hair-not-being-tied up they can get away with. Wearing a hoodie and not wearing a tie is a bit too much "blatant disregard" as opposed to "expressing herself". I doubt they would have alerted you about just one late arrival in class either - it's probably a habitual thing.

That said, confiscating devices and cancelling sleepovers sounds an OTT reaction.

Bubbles16395 Thank you, I took this form it too and also perhaps these points are the tip of the iceberg which I’m slightly worried about facing later this morning.

The world concern was used a little too much for my liking.

I think you need to try and support the school in their aims.

She’s breaking the rules. She’s consistently late. It seems like she has an attitude problem. Treating her like she’s either above the rules or like she needs special treatment because life is tough and like generations of women with heavy periods she needs to time loo breaks carefully isn’t going to help her or the school.

Some schools have a hundred kids per year group. What if they all took the attitude that their kids should be pandered to and allowed to break uniform rules and show up whenever they feel like it?

There’s lots of jobs where it’s important to show up on time and wear a uniform. Nursing and HCPs, Airline and Train staff, the Police, the Military. The school are right. Please support them and don’t make everyone’s life harder, including your daughter.

Maybe a non-uniform setting will suit her better?

That's what uniform is... one size fits all. That's the point of a uniform. Wasting an objection on this is pointless as the school is completely correct - and there will be times when you have a legitimate problem.

Policies in schools need to be enforced consistently and actively - that's one mark of a good school.

Don't fight the school on uniform policy or getting to class on time.

The vast majority of us will have to conform throughout life, getting to work on time, wearing correct uniform etc.

Yes we should all be free to express ourselves, but we do that in our own time!

Lateness is rude. Leave home 5 minutes earlier if she wants to use the loss immediately before class.

Her excuses and being difficult when challenged on them wouldn’t wash in the workplace and so it is setting her up well for the future to not accept them now.

The school isn't your enemy. They are trained educators, who have years of experience. Your daughter's explanation is totally plausible and appeals to all the feminist principles you have just told us. I would suspect she is playing you as the teacher didn't buy it.

Low level insubordination escalates as teens test the boundaries. I would be firm now as being a permissive parent is hard to row back from.

Are you somewhere where sleepovers are allowed? I know they aren't where I am. If you were allowing her to break that rule maybe she is getting mixed messages about rules applying to her.

Obviously doesn't apply if sleepovers are OK where you are.

Thanks all, she is my eldest DD and the teen years are a whole different ball game!!! 🤯

I suspect they have already been cutting her a lot of slack before sending you this email. They don’t tend to email unless an issue is escalating. As pp said it will be her attitude and reactions that will probably be the cause for concern.
Are sleepovers allowed at the moment by the way? I thought staying overnight wasn’t supposed to be happening yet, happy to be corrected though.

Grey hoodie on top of uniform and then attitude when asked to remove it is a bit shit to be honest. Its school uniform, they arent supposed to express their individualism in that context. There are totally situations where it's not appropriate to wear what you want, say what you want and express yourself how you please, and school and work are two of them.

School uniform of course is mandatory she needs to stick to that her period....double protection? Pads and period pants? Go to school a few minutes early change her pad in the loo she should be fine for two hours and if not she has period pants on for backup

Hmm, well if you're in the UK and allowing sleepovers, you're kind of communicating to her that rules are optional and don't have to be followed if you don't see the point, so she is essentially following your lead?

I get the thing about the pad, but if it was a one-off with no accompanying attitude, I doubt the school would make an issue of it. And yes, uniform is a pain for most teenage girls, but if you go to a school with a uniform, you just have to suck it up. Arguing the toss about it with her form tutor/HoY is not going to get her anywhere.

Personally, I wouldn't take the phone/ipad away because that seems like quite an arbitrary punishment. Instead, I would spend time talking to your dd about why she is behaving like this, what she thinks the impact is, why she needs to change her attitude etc.

And with regard to the meeting in school, I'd go in listening mode, apologise for her behaviour and not make any excuses for it. Hopefully, between you and the school, you will be able to get a plan in place to get your dd back on the right track.

Maybe a non-uniform setting will suit her better?

Probably would but good luck in finding that in England!