Email from school about DD

[Thoughtsfortheday]

This isn’t really an AIBU and more of a pondering but seemed the best place to put it.

Had an email from the school yesterday (from tutor teacher) about concern for daughters behaviour, being late to tutor in the morning with no good reasons and also constant breeches of school uniform and being difficult (in front of tutor and head of year) when asked to resolve. (for context grey oversized hoodie with sleeves rolled up on top of blazer, tie not tightened, necklaces on top of shirt etc nothing revolutionary,)

Just to be clear I was absolutely mortified when I received it and was really cross with her last night, and she has had her phone and iPad taken off her and I have cancelled a sleepover she had planned for this weekend.

My slight pondering/AIBU (which I absolutely have not shared with my DD) is I feel it must be quite tricky to be a teenage girl atm, the world is pushing us not to conform anymore, encouraging women to wear and say what they want, to be able to express ourselves without judgement and identify as we please, great, I’m a big believer! School then however is the polar opposite, with rules, no room for fluidity, a one shape fits all approach.

The reason that she’s been late to class this week is due to a heavy flow period and wanting to change her pad at the last moment before going into a double hour class. She said she had explained this to her teacher but they have deemed this unacceptable.

I have spoke to her about good timekeeping and how she has plenty of time to do this and get along to class but a little bit of me (granted the bias DM) thinks give her a break.

Sorry for the rambling, I have a phone meeting with the school this morning and just trying to work out which approach to take.

She doesn’t need to change her pad at the last moment making herself late, she can do it five mins earlier, I’m sorry but that’s an excuse.

It’s clearly not tricky as most of the other kids will be managing to comply. It’s about having respect for the teachers and understanding why the rules are there snd complying. Predominantly though having respect for the teachers and their time.

The big issue for me is periods.
Yes I get that for a teacher, having many students arriving late is a pain.
On the other side, many young teens have very heavy periods and with flooding periods, you dint always get the warning things need to be dealt with just right now.
I remember only too well my period starting at work with a gush of blood going everywhere, not just my clothes but actually dripping into the floor. (And no there was no warning either...)

And because of that, I would have a massive issue with anyone thinking that ‘having to dash to the loo to change a pad’ isn’t a good enough reason.

I bet she hasn’t just been late to tutor this week and has dragged up periods as an excuse for the most recent lateness. Ask how long she has been late to tutor for.

I think one message you might want to pass on to DD is that the better she does at school, the more likely she is to be able to do whatever she wants in later life. If she excels, she can choose her career and rise as far as she wants. She will then be way less constrained than if she rebels at school, fails her exams and has to take low skilled work or ends up a SAHM not through choice. If she ends up at the bottom of the rung will never feel truly free. It should be her active choice to do whatever it takes now in order to have the freedom later on.

You have my sympathy. It's a difficult journey to navigate in the best of times but back the school, they are preparing your child for the outside world too.
Can she request a toilet pass for emergencies?

I suspect that you would be first in line with complaints if your daughter's school was rated 'inadequate' because of poor discipline and attitudes from students. In order for teaching to be effective, classes need to begin on time, with all students present. The teachers should be spending their time teaching, not dealing with latecomers and pupils wearing incorrect uniform. You are not doing your daughter any favours by letting her think that she can bend rules to suit herself. It is not good training for the world of work.

@Holly60 thanks, that’s a good approach to take with her.

I don't think it's any trickier being a teenage girl now than it's ever been in terms of conflicting messages about conforming in some environments but being an individual in others. You've just got to keep highlighting that some behaviours are acceptable in some places and not in others. The school has a uniform policy, she's chosen to go to school, so she follows the policy. When she starts work, she'll have to follow the rules at work (including a dress code). If she learns to drive, she'll have to follow road rules etc.

To be honest, I think she's just - very mildly - pushing boundaries rather than confused over mixed messages.

I'm more sympathetic with the period issues. How long does she have to get between classes, and is that long enough to get to the toilet and back? If not, can she go to class, then ask to be excused to go to the toilet during the lesson?

@UserTwice

Teenage girls are pretty good (and always have been) at expressing themselves within the parameters of the uniform code. At DD's school rolling up your skirt (and of course rolling it down if anyone points out it is not knee length) is still a thing, and they also stretch the bounds of how much makeup and hair-not-being-tied up they can get away with. Wearing a hoodie and not wearing a tie is a bit too much "blatant disregard" as opposed to "expressing herself". I doubt they would have alerted you about just one late arrival in class either - it's probably a habitual thing.

That said, confiscating devices and cancelling sleepovers sounds an OTT reaction.

Pretty much what I was about to write, teenage girls have always looked for ways to express themselves by adapting their uniform in some way or seeing how much make up or jewellery they can get away with, did it myself and expect my daughter will when she's a teenager. I think the hoody and too visible necklace was just a bridge too far and she needs to tone it down, I think you were a bit harsh on her maybe for that but if in this meeting they tell you she does have a bad attitude in school or is rude then that's different and I'd say there does need to be a consequence for that kind of behaviour.

I'd have been sympathetic about the period issues personally and I'm surprised the teacher wasn't, if it's the first time it's happened then I really feel for her, and if it keeps happening every month then yes she will have to build extra time into her routine to allow for another change of pad before a lesson starts, yes it's horrible I've been there myself but from the school's point of view they can't really have that happening every month and not say anything about her being late. Other girls are bound to experience the same thing and they can't really make an excuse for one girl and not all the others. It's just a learning curve though, periods can be awful but we have to try and adapt and get into some kind of routine with timing if it's happening every month. Poor thing I do feel for her though. It's such a rubbish time I wouldn't cancel the sleepover personally, is it an outdoor camping type one or are they allowed to be indoors now?

@KarenMarlow3 I think you need to read my posts I did say that I was cross with DD, she has been punished and sent to school in correct school uniform and asked to apologise to all teachers involved.

I did say these were all inner ramblings.

Lots of minor issues can add up to a potential general attitude problem. Her lateness , for whatever reason, just adds to that impression. I doubt it is a one off. Agree allowing sleepovers during the pandemic is offering her leeway rather than boundaries.

No, sleepovers not allowed till 17th May in England. We’ve got one scheduled that night! Violet9

@Violet9 It was a camp over.

And suspect your right that these excuses are maybe wearing a bit thin.

@CovidSmart

The big issue for me is periods. Yes I get that for a teacher, having many students arriving late is a pain. On the other side, many young teens have very heavy periods and with flooding periods, you dint always get the warning things need to be dealt with just right now. I remember only too well my period starting at work with a gush of blood going everywhere, not just my clothes but actually dripping into the floor. (And no there was no warning either...)

And because of that, I would have a massive issue with anyone thinking that ‘having to dash to the loo to change a pad’ isn’t a good enough reason.

That’s not really what’s going on here is it. I was the same with the “suddenly gushing and running down my legs episodes” and had to run out. Teachers were sympathetic. I ended up having to go on the pill at 12 because of it affecting my schooling and health so much.

The OPs daughter is routinely, daily, leaving it to the absolute last minute to change her pads as a preventative measure. Changing it 5 mins earlier isn’t going make a difference. And I do get how horrible dealing with periods are at school - before going on the pill I’d be using a super tampon, two maxi pads and a pair of plastic incontinence knickers over the top. Today, with period pants plus better pad technology etc and then also non hormonal interventions that could at least be tried like tranexamic acid or NSAIDs like ibuprofen to cut blood loss, there should be something that’s worth a try rather than changing a pad during registration/tutor time. Even if it’s showing up to get her mark and then explaining the situation and asking if she could go and change herself before her double lesson. Another thing I had to do in an emergency.

I wouldn't have cancelled the sleepover, but they're not allowed atm anyway - are you in the U.K. or elsewhere?

If her periods are so heavy that she's worried about a pad leaking in a double lesson, you need to help her with that. How old is she, would she be willing to try a menstrual cup? What about period pants?

Re the period issue - she is putting on a fresh pad before going into a long lesson. Not begging to leave because she's leaking. She needs to go to the loo a few minutes earlier and she knows that. The teachers are right to expect her to be able to organise her time better.

One thing I'd say to my dd, which is something I have told my dc, if you are consistently late, then are late for a valid reason, people will tend to assume you've no good reason. if you're generally on time or early, then they'll assume you have a good reason.

That's what's happened here, by the sound of things. Because she is generally late, they've assumed that she's never got a good reason.

I remember one time when I was at school. I totally missed a double lesson for no good reason. I never said anything to the teacher, about why I wasn't there.
One of the lads who was frequently missing or late was very indignant a couple of weeks later when he missed a lesson, got chewed up by the teacher and he said "What about Margaret, why didn't you say anything to her?" and the teacher said "She's never missing without good reason."
Which wasn't true on this occasion.

The hoodie on top of her blazer is a open act of defiance. Better for all of you that whatever's brewing with her is addressed now.

@Wannakisstheteacher

Nope. What will set your DD up for a lifetime of misery will be if you give her the impression that the rules don’t really apply for her. Your daughter has all the time in the world to express herself - but not when she’s meant to be wearing the correct uniform. She will also need to learn to manage her period for the next 30 years without being late for things.

I think this is on the money. You both agreed to the uniform policy and the time to express herself with oversized hoodies and necklaces in during the evenings and weekends.

Half her class with have periods. She needs to manage them better so look into period pants or other options.

I think strict uniform policies are ridiculous and don't actually prepare people for the outside world. I've never worked somewhere with a uniform. Only places that have a loose policy, smart. We should be teaching kids how to achieve that kind of office workplace attire, since they're in an office kind of setting. And I think they should be able to express individuality.

She should be getting to class on time though. Changing her pad at the last possible second is fine, but she's clearly not timing it right and should be getting to class on time. If she's worried about leaking through during class can she double up a tampon and pad?

Is there some compromise where she can express herself more freely at weekends?

Unfortunately our state education system operates a conformist environment for reasons of time, structure, discipline and funding. Remind her it’s not long until college or university when she will be able to express herself how she wants.

Teens often feel a need to rebel, and we can support them in doing this safely and in a way that won’t scupper their chances in the adult world.

Having said that, ‘rebelling’ is not the same as exhibiting rude or inconsiderate behaviour (eg being late).

I would look to agree a way forward with the school and with your daughter’s involvement so that she feels part of the solution rather than part of the problem..

I appreciate this may be easier said than done, good luck.

I think strict uniform policies are ridiculous and don't actually prepare people for the outside world. I've never worked somewhere with a uniform. Only places that have a loose policy, smart. We should be teaching kids how to achieve that kind of office workplace attire, since they're in an office kind of setting. And I think they should be able to express individuality.
But given the op and her dd have signed up to this particular school's rules that's neither here nor there.
Trying to argue that it doesn't work for her is not the way to go here.

Yeah not ideal. But you’ve dished out a punishment and responded appropriately.

Does it really matter if deep down you’re not concerned?

Not IMO.

She’s playing you OP .... which is what teenagers do 😉

But she needs to buckle up and accept the rules, or take responsibility and suffer the consequences of her actions, both in school and at home.

FWIW - it’s horrible for everyone atm, young and old. We all have to adjust. It’s not easy for anyone.

Holly - She will then be way less constrained than if she rebels at school, fails her exams and has to take low skilled work or ends up a SAHM not through choice. If she ends up at the bottom of the rung will never feel truly free -
what a horrible, stupid, offensive comment. There are thousands of young people who are not academic, have no exams as such, yet thrive in the outside working world! You’re condemning a huge amount of people because they’re not academic 🙄 so GCSE’s are the be all and end all in life? 🙄 get a grip.

Your inner ramblings and internal thought processes are not doing anyone any favours.

You can’t rock up to work in an operating theatre in a tutu claiming the right to self-expression. Not many workplaces will put up with not turning up on time because your period is heavy. If you are mentally excusing these things, even though outwardly you are being sensible and aligning with the school, then you are really not doing her any favours. And yes, I have been there and got the badge with teenage girls. She’s not the first and not the last and isn’t special.