Shouting at kids, want to stop

[Ncbecauseselfloathing]

I know I ABU.

I can’t stop. I don’t know how.

I am traumatising my DD. She is 3 and so wilful and difficult but she is just 3.

Shouting doesn’t work I know (occasionally it does but mostly it doesn’t).

I am at a loss. I feel like I have been lobotomised and just can’t catch a break between 3 year old and the baby. I have it quite easy compared to others.

I asked GP about help for anger management a while ago and it sounds like you basically have to be seriously fucking up your family and SS involved and then you might be sent to parenting classes. I don’t need that, but my reading books and articles isn’t working.

[quote Ncbecauseselfloathing]@Kaboomba thank you for your post. We suspect ASD too but that is a slightly separate issue.

Harm reduction approach. I just feel like there are so many things I can and want to do and try but I can’t get a chance to even apply a reset or start afresh. Need to draft in some emergency help for a day somehow.[/quote]
I read Koomba's message and also recognised myself in it - my child went on to subsquently be diagnosed with ASD too. Maybe time to speak to a professional and try and ask for help for your family, including you too. Wish I had done it much sooner.

And it's not really a separate issue - perhaps you are finding it harder, because it is actually more difficult for you as a parent and that's tough to cope with.

I was like this when my youngest was a baby/toddler and my eldest was very strong willed. It was complete overwhelm. There were other issues at play too so it might be worth thinking about if any of the following apply to you.

1. I was tired. Oh so fucking tired and I don't cope at ALL with sleep deprivation. My youngest didn't sleep through the night until 2.5 so the tiredness was utter torture. The world was a brighter place when she and I started sleeping.

1. I was a SAHM. As you're on maternity leave that's much the same. It is also utter torture to be at home with small children every fucking day. Boring, relentless drudgery does NOT suit my personality. It was also very isolating as I live rurally having moved to wherever DH is from and didn't know many people. It was a lonely time and I was very unfulfilled and should have gone back to work.

1. Relationship conflict. My husband didn't pull his weight with the DC and I felt completely unsupported and let down. I ultimately took my frustration with him out on my DC (I recognise this in your description of the chips incident) I carried a lot of resentment and that is not healthy. I'm currently in the "getting ducks in a row" stage.

1. Finally - this one took ages to recognise - I realized the worst of my anger/irritation was linked to my cycle. I had never suffered with pms before and my cycle is irregular so that's why it took me so long to click but following my second pregnancy I had all sorts of period symptoms I never had before. I tracked it on a period app for a few months to be sure and then went to the GP. Going on contraception has made a huge difference.

It was a perfect storm really but now my DC are 5 and 4 and I'm back to being the calm mother I started off as (most of the time anyway!) it was so wrong of me to lose it like that and I always apologized to them but the guilt was unbearable.

Start dissecting your life and happiness/satisfaction levels. There will be underlying reasons for your behaviour much like there's underlying reasons behind toddler tantrums. You need to find out whats going on and fix what you can and your relationship with your DD will improve as a result.

@Sunhoop I’m nodding at that. Eldest didn’t sleep through until... I don’t know but slept in my bed until 2, and then still in the same room until just before second baby born. Second baby is 6m and not sleeping through yeh and waking a couple of times for a feed. So tiredness is making everything harder.

2 and 3 also yes to those. 4 I don’t know as I’m still breastfeeding and mercifully dont have periods yet. My mind/emotions are not all there though and I kinda remember that for the 1st year with my dd as well. It took a while to get old thought processes back and my brain just runs to hot much more quickly. Whether hormonal or just the tiredness, who knows.

Sometimes doctors aren't that clued up about taking meds when BF. This might help you

www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/antidepressants/

Don't beat yourself up. It will get better. Mine are older now (at least one autistic too, interestingly) and while I can still find their behaviour infuriating I find it so much easier to deal with these days.

This is a really helpful thread. I struggle too. I’ve been reading up on maternal anger and how it’s such a taboo and trying to understand it. Also another vote for Perry here.

You do sound very angry and it's not nice for the kids, I agree. I do think that if you keep shouting a lot, you will end up either with emotionally insecure/damaged kids or very loud, angry kids.
Just take a deep breath, count to 5/10, and make the choice not to shout.
You are the adult here. You are in control of your reactions.
If still struggling maybe go back to GP for CBT.

The dinner incident really was abusive. It is abusive. I can't sugar-coat it because you do have to stop.

Reacting this way is nearly always because of other issues

Partner not doing fair share
Not enough sleep
Financial stress
Work stress

If those are sorted you won't yell at your children

Reading through your updated OP I am struck by a couple of things

1. Your DD is a normal 3 year old, I don’t think anything you have said makes me think otherwise so I wouldn’t be rushing to diagnose here
2. Food is an issue so your DH needs to tow the line. Can’t you all eat one meal?
3. Can’t you leave for a walk whilst your MIL is there . Use everyone you can to get some time
4. Walk with the baby whilst your toddler is in pre school

I know it was abusive. That realisation is prompting me to reach out for help.

Reading further updates (thank you) I think I do need to work on me, and certainly before I go back to work - whether medication or CBT etc. I have been waking up in the night just thinking about disaster scenarios and just feeling angry or miserable a lot of the time so I think it’s been bubbling under the surface without me really realising. The fact that my DH is so miserable at the moment speaking to the stress of life at the moment. He isn’t usually a shouter but has been shouting a lot more recently. My behaviour isn’t ok for him either.

(My MIL’s visit was unplanned, she had to come inside because it was raining. Taking baby for a walk when she is here is a good suggestion, I just didn’t think to do it in the moment.)

Helping me to see that I think there are some underlying reasons for behaviour - being knackered primarily - but not pretending these are excuses. It has to stop.

How much of your stress is actually rooted in how your DH behaves?

From what you have said he had your MIL over which is a sore point and was messing around for hours whilst you did housework and looked after baby. Even though he was in charge of DD he wasn’t looking after her properly so she ended up wet and you had to change her. He didn’t fancy cooking so he got himself a takeaway and left you looking cooking instead. He then started eating in front of a hungry 3 yo and gave her chips instead of giving them to you to add to her dinner.

I am not for a second condoning shouting at DD or throwing her plate, but it’s no wonder you were stressed out.

We’ve all had moments of this. I read something once that before you open your mouth to yell imagine that your toddler is your elderly relative who has dementia and is being annoying. I guess the idea is you wouldn’t shout at them because they can’t help it and in a way neither can your young child (depends what they’ve been up to of course!)

OP I can see a lot of myself in your posts. I too can be very hot headed. I don’t like it either.

I have 3 DCs,’ (one is a baby still), DH works very long hours and we have zero other help. My DH was absolutely useless with the first 2 DC and it honestly nearly drove me insane. He is much more hands on now, and the difference is striking.

You know what, you have my deepest sympathies. It’s so, so hard. The worst parts of becoming a mother are that your feelings are completely invalidated or de-prioritised.

You are no doubt stuck in the cycle of ‘completely exhausted/stressed, get cross, lose it, feel guilty’ and round and round you go. I absolutely know how you feel, I have been there (and occasionally go there, but much less).

I actually think what your husband did with the take away, was a complete kick in the teeth for you and no doubt you felt completely undermined and upset that the work you are putting in to the family is being completely overlooked.

I understand.

I’m not condoning your behaviour, we both know it should be better (mine too by the way, when I act like a dick), but I just wanted you to know that I see your situation for what it likely is and I understand how you feel.

Best of luck, it’s hard, but you can do it.

@RestingPandaFace Yes, a lot of it is because of DH but it was also a reaction to his stress.

He didn’t invite his mum over, she turned up in our part of town. She lives on the other side of town. She actually turned up at DD’s nursery gates but timed it wrong - not sure what she was intending, but probably to force a visit from lunchtime onwards (and use/ manipulate DD to achieve that). If DH says no to MIL she will harass him by text/ phone. I am very annoyed about how MIL is but powerless to change - I don’t want to stop DD seeing her, and I don’t want to make it more stressful for DH by banning visits. I did say she can’t come in here but then it was raining heavily outside so the weather wasn’t on my side.

With the chips it wasn’t his fault in the moment. She pounced on the package. It is his fault for letting her open things for him and not training her that it’s not ok to go into bags. She doesn’t just dive into my shopping or my handbag, but she will into DH’s or MIL’s - who of course gives her an unwelcome piece of tat or in appropriate toy each time she sees her and ignores me when I say that I don’t want her to let her root around in her handbag.

They both say things like ‘she wanted it’ or ‘she just did it’ as if they are not the adults in the situation. For example, I saw another kinder egg toy piece on the floor - and we have agreed to not buy those because the toys are annoying - cheap plastic which breaks easily and DD gets upset and she leaves them on the floor which creates a risk for our feet and the baby who is at grabbing things on the floor stage. So we’ve said no more but when I found a new one on the baby’s playmat yesterday, DH just said ‘she wanted it’. I read that to mean ‘she wanted it and I was too overwhelmed also having to put up with my mother to fight the 3 year old’.

So, yes, a lot of it comes from DH but he does help out with DD a lot more now (I am making him in anticipation of return to work) and he is very overwhelmed himself and I can see he is at close to burnout/ breaking point. There is also little that I can do to change him. I don’t feel heard or listened to a lot but shouting doesn’t change that.

There is usually a lot of stress if MIL has been around.

Another vote for Incredible Years. My council has very little help for SEN without years of waiting, but one thing they do to almost anyone who seeks help is offer an Incredible Years based parenting course to shut us up about the total lack of any other meaningful support and I was sceptical but it really was very good. I'd see another GP and try to get proper help - I bet that your concerns were minimised because you were a nicely presented white middle class woman, if you were a man or from a different background they'd be calling ss - it's not fair to you or to your DCs.

I am generally very placid but when my relationship was falling apart and my dc2 was younger (now also diagnosed with ASD), I used to get grumpy as well. It's got easier with age, also when then-DH moved out I did get more tired but also there was so much less tension that in many ways it was easier. Unfortunately my ex has a real temper and I do think it's very bad for children to see, it was a big cause of me wanting to live separately. It's so good that you have identified it now and are committed to working on it.

It sounds like you and your DH are not on the same page, him sitting at the table with a takeaway while you eat something feels like it's representative of a big undercurrent. Is he feeling like you're not cooking enough? Can you take turns cooking and freezing meals that are satisfying and filling for everyone? Or otherwise have her eat sometimes and the two of you have an adult takeaway together later? Also, how are you sharing things otherwise?

You do need to get this sorted, as in my experience it gets more and not less stressful when you go back to work and have more to juggle. Good on you for identifying the issue, and good luck.

If you think about co-regulation the more you shout and are wound up, the more she is wound up.

Don't watch super nanny. She advocates time out and naughty step as I remember it which teaches shame and is terrible for children's attachment.

Is your husband calmer? Can he take over when you are stressed. Have you you got consistent rules, boundaries, bedtimes, good nutritious diet and limited screen time?

You are right this isn't good for her. Is she at nursery when you work? What do they say about her?

Seriously read this book and just do what it says even if it feels artificial. It turned me pretty much overnight from a screamer to a calm mum and DC rarely tantrummed from then on. It's all about avoiding battles of wills, offering choices both of which work for you and agreeing with how they feel even if you don't agree with what they want. (Which is a weirdly successful technique.)

I agree - avoid Supernanny. She likes battles of wills and punishments.

(mostly involving other people - people having problems that I have promised to help them with and I can’t get things done. I know - sounds mad but I do the kind of job that involves people turning to me for help usually. I’m on leave at the moment but friends and family come fir advice

Unless you are handing out money does the help you give actually make a difference? I used to 'help' a useless family member - but in fact none of the help, even the money , made a difference - they half followed whatever advice the last person gave them (not mine), and blew the money. Taking a step back and saying 'Oh, that's a shame' but offering no advice actually did them a favour - they had to start to take responisbility for themselves. And was like a heavy cloud rising off my shoulders.
Try to pre empt stuff with DH, plan the food more together.
Can you manage to get outside - I dont' know where you are in the country but sit and watch DD play, admire the nice daisies she's picked, baby can be in buggy. Getting out of the house at anytime is much better than indoors all day.

Do you shout in front of friends? Or in public? Best either pretend you’re being filmed or watched when dealing with situations or put the kids somewhere safe and have 5 minutes away to calm down

Are you depressed?
Forget about the shouting part for a second - are you struggling ?

I'd really love to explore medication to just take the edge of slightly. I feel I have slightly heightened anxiety which could be helped. Haven't the first idea how to raise this with the doctor tho.

@headintheproverbial you might actually find it easier to talk about this with a doctor now that face to face appointments are a rare thing. I filled out a form describing my symptoms online and then my doctor phoned me for a chat. I think I had a tendency to minimise my problems when in a face to face situation.

Meditation and medication I am a calmer more patient and tolerant person now and it’s literally been life changing.

I had really similar problems with shoutingat my toddler when I was on mat leave with my youngest. I started taking st John's wort and find it helps a quite bit. And telling my toddler when I was starting to feel cross and getting better at walking out for a few seconds. Good luck!