Doyou care about Boris Johnson's constant lying?

[Kendodd]

My theory is that voters don't care.

@Peregrina

I thought the Wallpaper stunt quite funny too. The Tories seemed not to though. I also liked the John Lewis response that they have a Home Design Service and can find something to suit most tastes.

The JL tweet was great, really made me laugh.

I daresay having your store described as a nightmare can be good for business if it's spun right.

Politicians have clearly been expedient with the truth in the past and a certain level of lying by prime ministers has gone on. John Major did it (Edwina Currie affair), Tony Blair seems to have (Bernie Eccleston's £1m for changes to tobacco advertising) and David Cameron is currently emerging as pretty untrustworthy too.

But Johnson has taken it to a whole new level – where he just lies about anything and everything, a bit like Trump. It's not just the wallpaper (and really, it's mystifying why he won't tell the truth on that, it seems such a small thing) - it's random lies at the dispatch box. He just stands there and makes stuff up. There are whole books dedicated to the subject of Johnson's lies.

But... it seems to be working. He's made it to PM, after all and a significant number of people seem to think he's done well as soon as they are vaccinated. This is despite the fact he has combined a high level of deaths and a high hit to the economy in the same way as other populist (= will say what you want to hear) leaders, eg Trump in the US, Modi in India, and Bolsonaro in Brazil.

So where do we go from here? Do we just expect people in political office are in it for themselves (which seems very unfair on the many that are not) or do we do something about it? I hope the 'do something about it' is now happening, through the Electoral Commission and the various other investigations into Johnson's behaviour.

My hope is that this is a blip, and we'll get past this and someone decent will take over, as we've seen with Biden in the US.

No, I don't care.

I don't care who paid for the decoration of No 10 and I think each incoming PM should get a taxpayer-funded budget to redecorate. Why should they have to live with their predecessor's decor?

As for the Dyson thing - this is now business works and anyone who doesn't know that doesn't know anything about business. Boris was under pressure to get a lot of ventilators quickly. James Dyson is a well-know British innovator, so why wouldn't he grease the wheels to get things moving?

@zafferana

No, I don't care.

I don't care who paid for the decoration of No 10 and I think each incoming PM should get a taxpayer-funded budget to redecorate. Why should they have to live with their predecessor's decor?

As for the Dyson thing - this is now business works and anyone who doesn't know that doesn't know anything about business. Boris was under pressure to get a lot of ventilators quickly. James Dyson is a well-know British innovator, so why wouldn't he grease the wheels to get things moving?

If I was buying ventilators I'd go to a ventilator manufacturer.

Or am I missing something?

someone decent will take over

You are so absolutely deluded if you think Left=decent Right=sleaze

Every Labour voter on here can spend hours identifying the problems under the tories and sticking in their links the problem comes with the question....would it have been or be better organised by Labour?

The answer is always a resounding no....borne out in voting....based on lived historical experience of life under Labour, the inability to change or develop either people, policy or planning....they cannot persuade the electorate they are fit to hold office and no amount of bullying will change that either by KS in public with his stunts or on MN with posters like Beachside....

I wouldn't mind but these are the same people who will be banging the "Be Kind" drum the next time that debate rears up.

If I was buying ventilators I'd go to a ventilator manufacturer.

Or am I missing something?

As I understood it at the time, existing ventilator manufacturers were inundated with orders they couldn't keep up with and the UK hadn't got its order in early enough anyway, so innovators of all kinds were being encouraged to develop their own versions. Hence, Dyson trying to get in on the act.

who will be banging the "Be Kind" drum

Yes, this mob is scary

There's so much naivety on these threads. Sometimes I'm not sure if some posters were born yesterday, they are very young or what

I don't care who paid for the decoration of No 10 and I think each incoming PM should get a taxpayer-funded budget to redecorate

Like the taxpayer funded budget of £30,000 they are allocated?

jasjas1973
Err is that relevant?

Yes it is - one anonymous comment out of how many SAGE members? Quite a few I think. Matt Hancock and Michael Gove seem quite capable of chairing COBR meetings.

Exercise Cygnus - chaired by the Secretary of State for Health and the Minister for the Cabinet Office.

@zafferana

If I was buying ventilators I'd go to a ventilator manufacturer.

Or am I missing something?

As I understood it at the time, existing ventilator manufacturers were inundated with orders they couldn't keep up with and the UK hadn't got its order in early enough anyway, so innovators of all kinds were being encouraged to develop their own versions. Hence, Dyson trying to get in on the act.

IIRC we were offered a load by the EU and turned them down in favour of the Great British ventilator challenge.

Or Operation Last Gasp as I believe it was known.

IIRC we were offered a load by the EU and turned them down in favour of the Great British ventilator challenge
I find that hard to believe but perhaps we were offered some - I think we were also building hospitals so estimates of the ventilators needed were probably an overestimation and hence a panic to build more.

IIRC we were offered a load by the EU and turned them down in favour of the Great British ventilator challenge.

The EU had failed to deliver any ventilators in July 2020 - not sure when they managed it but not quick enough for us.

Like the EU would actually give the UK anything these days! Don't make me laugh.

As for £30,000 for redecoration - okay I didn't realise that (and Radio 4 have been suspiciously quiet about it) - but I guess £30k doesn't buy old boy Eton style! Whatever. We all know Boris has cash flow problems.

Ah yes the BBC.

Really infuriated about the appointment of Robbie Gibb.

@Clavinova

IIRC we were offered a load by the EU and turned them down in favour of the Great British ventilator challenge.

The EU had failed to deliver any ventilators in July 2020 - not sure when they managed it but not quick enough for us.

UK failed to join an EU scheme to stockpile medical equipment, so no offers were therefore made, however, German military did send some ventilators to the UK.

The ventilator challenge delivered no additional equipment and was a complete waste of time & resources, these things need to be safe and thoroughly tested and that takes time.

Should have funded traditional ventilator makers instead.

The UK did not join an EU scheme that may have helped procure medical equipment and Dyson didn't deliver any ventilators

Should have funded traditional ventilator makers instead

In the end it was demonstrated that ventilators were not the answer though. So, in hindsight, that would have been wasted funding.

What they did fund was innovation by Mercedes McClaren who developed a much better system, with an engineered device to increase oxygen flow from standard outlets without intubation. These are now being used worldwide.

The understanding of pandemic, and Covid, has evolved over this last year. We are in a completely different place now that we have better understanding of the virus and it's effects. Most of what we knew at the outset had subsequently been modified. Therefore I don't hold with this constant lying narrative. Things change. Governments around the world have taken decisions based on what they knew at the time. Some good decisions, some bad. Those that did well in the beginning, have since made other, bad choices.

With regards to the decorating, couldn't give a rats arse tbh. As long as he paid in end, who cares. Labour are just looking stupid now. The pandemic is subsiding and they are looking for revenge. They need to pick their battles. Dyson wasn't the one to go for, he made no money, and indeed took on the costs. Greensill won't stick, as the lobbying didn't work, they didn't get the contract. And bitching about a few thousand borrowed (potentially), and paid back, for decorating, isn't going to work either, as it just looks petty.

Even the suspicion of sleazy contractural purchasing of PPE and other services, isn't coming out as planned. Most of the contracts went to pre-approved government suppliers. Those that didn't were "VIP Laned", but again, unless we get detail on whether those VIP's actually benefitted, I'm not sure many people are concerned about companies being "recommended" as long as they delivered.

This isn't about ventilators, this is about Dyson having direct access to Johnson's personal phone number.

Not good

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56937889
Boris Johnson's personal mobile phone number available online for 15 years

Not read whole thread but - it was clear before the elections, to anyone with even basic reasoning capacity, that Johnson had lied repeatedly and also done morally dubious things (all the cheating, recorded agreeing to have someone roughed up, the bus lie, and so on) and yet the country voted him in. With vox pop interviewees saying things like "well, I just think he's a breath of fresh air"

It's not that no voters care, but enough don't care for him to have won an election, which is shocking.

I care that such an unpleasant and mendacious person is the PM but I care even more about "post truth" and the way lying has been made acceptable, and facts and reality are shoved aside - obviously so with Trump but in other areas besides politics too.

Why should they have to live with their predecessor's decor?

Why should we stump up for unnecessary total revamps every few years? It's so wasteful.

I'm always amazed that redecorating state apartments so often is a thing at all. I assumed they would be done up in fusty old traditional style and that was that. If you don't like it you don't have to be PM - or if you must redecorate, other than necessary maintenance, of course it should be your own money.

Shows what I know but then I'm always amazed at the way people redecorate so much for fashion reasons.

Like the taxpayer funded budget of £30,000 they are allocated?

Which is per annum. Johnson is now into his second year as PM, so that's £60,000 he has had at his disposal, for a flat which we know was refurbished in 2016. So it hardly would have needed a great lot doing to it.

But as said on these threads, it's not the money, it's who has lent him the money and will expect something in return.

Yes. Just shows how corrupt politicians are, how they are just in it for themselves. Contract to their mates etc.

But I still can't see why the public is so apathetic to it! Especially when it comes from the Tories!

RunnerDown
I’m angry about the curtains but absolutely livid about this. The names of companies given contracts to make PPE during the pandemic. And companies who understood how to do this safety were ignored.

According to this article only one per cent of PPE was manufactured in the UK prior to the pandemic;

UK set to produce 70 percent of PPE required domestically by December [2020] ...

Before the pandemic, only one percent of PPE was produced in the UK.

www.europeanpharmaceuticalreview.com/news/129369/uk-set-to-produce-70-percent-of-ppe-required-domestically-by-december/

The ventilator challenge delivered no additional equipment and was a complete waste of time & resources

Should have funded traditional ventilator makers instead.

The Ventilator Challenge did exactly that;

06.07.2020

Today, the work of VentilatorChallengeUK, the Consortium of UK aerospace, motorsport, automotive and medical businesses concludes after more than doubling the stock available to the NHS.

Formed on 19 March in response to the anticipated escalation in COVID19 cases, the Consortium has worked with great determination and energy to deliver critical Penlon ESO 2 and Smiths paraPAC™ plus ventilators to the NHS throughout the crisis. In that time, the consortium:

Scaled-up the Penlon ESO 2 Emergency Ventilator device Smiths paraPAC Plus. Both met clinicians’ requirements as understanding of the virus progressed.

Established, from scratch, seven new large-scale manufacturing facilities at Airbus AMRC Cymru in Broughton, Ford in Dagenham, GKN Aerospace in Luton and Cowes, McLaren in Woking, Rolls-Royce in Filton and STI in Hook, as well as restructuring existing sites Smiths Medical in Luton and Penlon in Abingdon.

Set-up new parallel supply chains and acquired around 42 million parts and electronic components through a complex logistics network that saw DHL design and implement an end-to-end supply chain in only 1.5 weeks...

Despite global competition for parts and lockdown challenges during the pandemic the team sourced parts from over 22 countries...
Recruited and trained a 3,500 front-line assembly team...

www.penlon.com/Blog/July-2020/VentilatorChallengeUK-consortium-ends-after-delive

The ventilator challenge delivered no additional equipment and was a complete waste of time & resources

Reply was to jasjas1973
www.penlon.com/Blog/July-2020/VentilatorChallengeUK-consortium-ends-after-delive