To ask if this woman was reasonable to make a complaint of sexism against a train station worker?

[CounsellorTroi]

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/train-station-worker-said-door-20427510?fbclid=IwAR1f04ip9QSaRaqT_uAw5d_areNmeBte49_fcmaw3hi58UuHm8T2Vw24ufA

She was having trouble opening a train door and he helped her, saying "it needed a man's touch"

She tweeted it all first?
Train company went further than they should have by including vouchers.

I work in public transport and do encounter everyday sexism a fair bit from colleagues and contractors. The industry is still mostly run by men. I mean, most rail companies cannot provide PPE for women, so they have to wear ill-fitting PPE designed for men, which can be dangerous in certain settings.

That aside, a lit if men presume because I'm female I cannot do the very job I'm trained for, such as fixing points or removing injured or sick people from trains, and instantly push me aside and take over. So many times a male colleague has said "Let me do that" and I've had to tell him to f* off. I've also had contractors ask to see the station manager and when told it's me, they look at me in disbelief and say, "Oh" like they were expecting a man. It's bulls**t.

So unfortunately I totally understand where this woman is coming from. If I were her though, I wouldn't have complained to TfW but just called the guard out on tbe spot and moved on. Sometimes that's enough to make men think. I wouldn't want them to lise their job for being stupid.

Needs a woman touch is commonly used

@GreyhoundG1rl don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this was the worst of the worst and we should be assembling a firing squad!

I just think it's always tricky when you start trying to draw a distinction between 'sexism that matters' and 'low-level shit that we should just put up with'. Because as with any kind of discrimination, it's the low-level shit that paves the way to the worse stuff.

There's no easy answer to it, unfortunately. Nobody (I hope) wants a culture where people are dealt with harshly for what's essentially a stupid but well-intentioned mistake. Unfortunately, the way things are at the moment, it's hard for women to challenge everyday sexism informally. Doing so just gets you marked out as humourless, or oversensitive, or looking for reasons to be offended, or hormonal, or hysterical, or rude, or a 'Karen', or 'needs shagged', or... etc. Which of course is also the reaction if we challenge it formally.

[quote JesusInTheCabbageVan]@GreyhoundG1rl don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this was the worst of the worst and we should be assembling a firing squad!

I just think it's always tricky when you start trying to draw a distinction between 'sexism that matters' and 'low-level shit that we should just put up with'. Because as with any kind of discrimination, it's the low-level shit that paves the way to the worse stuff.

There's no easy answer to it, unfortunately. Nobody (I hope) wants a culture where people are dealt with harshly for what's essentially a stupid but well-intentioned mistake. Unfortunately, the way things are at the moment, it's hard for women to challenge everyday sexism informally. Doing so just gets you marked out as humourless, or oversensitive, or looking for reasons to be offended, or hormonal, or hysterical, or rude, or a 'Karen', or 'needs shagged', or... etc. Which of course is also the reaction if we challenge it formally.[/quote]
No, I agree with you in the main. I just think it's one of those things you deal with at the time, directly, and move on.

Going public with this stuff just turns it into a bad joke and dilutes how much the really heavy stuff matters.

A lot of posters on here seem to have been brought up to put up and shut up with sexist remarks.

And to think the woman should have run around putting this man at his ease, or not having read the article which describes how the sexist remark (and it was a sexist remark) was made.

It reminds me of when I told a few women about how in my first job, I was told by a man in another department to "go and make me a cup of tea love" and I simply refused and said it wasn't my job. Some women said I should have done it. Err, no.

Or the man who queue jumped in front if me recently, saying "it's a man's world" and the shop staff just let him. No, again. I dont care if it's a bit inconvenient for people to he stalled out on everyday secism.

This country is so old fashioned at times.

Those two examples are completely different to what happened here.

@GreyhoundG1rl

Those two examples are completely different to what happened here.

I must be careful, next time I exierience everyday sexism, to ensure it happens on a train and an identical remark is made to my boyfriend who then repeats it to me then, clearly...

Don't be ridiculous. It's a fact, your two examples are another level entirely.

How is that sexist when I’ve heard women say it needs a woman’s touch if saying it needs a mans touch is sexist then so is saying it needs a woman’s touch but no one ever complains about that. Sorry but struggling to see the problem with what he said.

A deeper question is about whether it's "ist" of any form to acknowledge there may be something differentiating two individual exemplars based on a wider population trait ?

After all, peoples skin colours differ - enormously. Is it a form of "ist" to comment on it (I tend to think not) ?

Generally men are physically stronger than women. It would be an interesting world if we were not only not allowed to mention it, but had to live our lives as if it wasn't true.

For example, some people have darker skin that others. Which - judging by some current debate - is going to be a shock to some people when they open their eyes after reading the debate.

To add to my earlier post - I've lost count of the number of times I've witnessed everyday sexism and just let it slide, because I didn't want to make things awkward, or to explain myself in front of a load of and faces. Plus, you know, I'm a woman, so naturally I've been brought up to believe that nobody will like me if I stand up for myself, and that kind of bullshit thinking is hard to shake off.

On the rare occasions I have challenged something, it hasn't happened in a vaccuum. To an outsider, undoubtedly it looked like I was making a fuss about nothing, but to me, they were last straw moments which also happened to remind me of similar but far shittier experiences in my past.

Going public with this stuff just turns it into a bad joke and dilutes how much the really heavy stuff matters.

I agree, although possibly for different reasons. Problem is, we can't really win - say nothing and we're part of the problem. Say something and we're a whole new problem.

Oh for goodness sake, she needs to get a life. Or a real problem!

I think saying something is fine. It's quite okay to correct someone if they've done something you deem as offensive but what some do isn't quite 'saying something' or 'correcting'. It's often trying to score points or show the other person to be [insert extreme judgement with no rational consideration]

I think it's important to say that those people should be extremely careful to be perfect and never cause a whiff of offence if they're going to be throwing the word around at others. There are so many things people could "choose" to be offended by and make a big deal about, if they wanted. It's a 2-way street and the point is you often can't tell what it is/will be until you "commit that crime" (since it's open to personal interpretation), unless you already know but choose to offend.

Just saying.

@LunaMuffinTop

How is that sexist when I’ve heard women say it needs a woman’s touch if saying it needs a mans touch is sexist then so is saying it needs a woman’s touch but no one ever complains about that. Sorry but struggling to see the problem with what he said.

This conversation has been had a few times already on this thread, but the easy-to-understand answer is: saying 'a woman's touch' is also sexist, because it implies that only women are good at certain tasks, and generally those tasks tend to be ones which don't require any strength, or depth of thinking, or STEM skills, for example.

Two final points worth noting:

1: The train company initially refused to recognise the what he said was even sexist.

2: Her response (from which I think we can infer that she has the same 'real problems as the rest of us):

"I found it offensive for several reasons. I didn't hear the man's remark, my boyfriend told me what had happened after we got off the train So it kind of felt like a joke about me, more than a joke meant as a way to laugh with me. Also, it's obviously a sexist joke and I really can't see what's funny about sexism.

And finally, I think that it really bothered me because it's not an isolated event, it's really part of a continuum of violence against women. I feel like it was part of a normalised sexism that people don't take seriously, although it actively contributes to reinforcing gender stereotypes.

My boyfriend told me their argument wasn't valid because he got the same problem as me with opening the doors on other occasions in the presence of a staff member, and they would always say something along the lines of 'oh yeah these buttons are a bit difficult'

I'm fully aware that this is not the worst episode of sexism that someone could think of, but unlike what many comments suggested on my post, I think it's still legitimate to denounce this type of behaviour/jokes while also fighting for the bigger picture".

Women are pathetic when we are angry. Women are ridiculous when we are militant. Women are unpleasant when we are bitter, no matter what the cause. Women are deranged when women want justice. Women are man-haters when women want accountability and respect from men.

That's a Dworkin quote but maybe it is time that these attitudes are challenged a bit.

@Xoxoxoxoxoxox always nice to have a pipe dream, isn't it

Maybe the guard should have said "It needs a guards touch"

Would this have been complained about??

It was a light hearted comment.

And no, it’s really not part of a continuum of violence against women.

@thebestnamehere

Maybe the guard should have said "It needs a guards touch"

Would this have been complained about??

Nope, because it's not sexist.

*Generally men are stronger than women" great argument when the man is 5 feet 4 and 8 stone soaking wet and the woman is feet 2 and works out...

There are a lot of very small, thin men where I live, and a lot of tall, strong looking women. I dont know why, but your comment would make more sense if it said "Generally men are more aggressive/sexist than women". But that would be be unfair towards men wouldn't it?

Pathetic. She needs a life.

What about “female intuition” - is that sexist? Or “man flu”?