To ask if this woman was reasonable to make a complaint of sexism against a train station worker?

[CounsellorTroi]

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/train-station-worker-said-door-20427510?fbclid=IwAR1f04ip9QSaRaqT_uAw5d_areNmeBte49_fcmaw3hi58UuHm8T2Vw24ufA

She was having trouble opening a train door and he helped her, saying "it needed a man's touch"

Really couldn't get excited about this .

I’d be quite happy for anyone to open a door for me if I was struggling with it. Everyone’s looking to be a victim these days, it’s bloody annoying.

I think a lot of younger women are just not prepared to put up with the low-level bullshit and I admire them for it tbh.

Sexism is a drain and needs consigning to the past in public service roles. The man can go home and say what he likes.

I don't think they are looking to be a victim, I think they are saying casual sexism shouldn't be part of everyday polite conversation and they're right.

@blubberyboo

I’ve heard the phrase used interchangeably with both men and women’s touch

It was a lighthearted off the cuff joke

She’s just made herself look like a huffy twit

This.

I think the response from the company is correct...that if it had been the other way round the person may have said it needed a woman’s touch. Their comments matched the situation. 🤷‍♀️ Sounds like the poor bloke was being friendly/making conversation and the sad thing is from now on he’ll probably be worried about doing so.

That would be rather dense of him though, and just because someone is sexist it does not follow that they're also stupid

I don't think it's being dense or stupid, more 'better safe than sorry' because I doubt he walks around everyday having to say "needs a man's touch" to a lot of people. To be fair, I think someone who still says 'needs a man's/woman's touch' about anything probably has a shed load of other sexist gaffes they'd think innocent. So for him to "learn to say something different" in place of those words alone doesn't quite get him out of the woods with other possible 'offence' he may cause someone else by speaking to them.

or even just ' stronger hand, glad I could help' would all be fine

Interestingly, I think 'strong or stronger hands' was what he meant there but [I suppose this is where the sexism lies?] 'man/strong' are typically used interchangeably in such cases. [As 'woman/whatever stereotype' is used when someone is happily talking about 'a woman's touch']

So I believe if he said "just needed stronger hands", he'd have gotten the same reaction because it would still mean "You think you're strong just because you're a man and I'm weaker because I'm a woman! REPORTED!"

So I believe if he said "just needed stronger hands", he'd have gotten the same reaction because it would still mean "You think you're strong just because you're a man and I'm weaker because I'm a woman! REPORTED!"

Not from me, he wouldn't

interesting to note that you think that casual sexism must be so entrenched that he is incapable of change.

If that is true (which personally I do not believe) then shutting up is the better option. But shutting up is not the inherent or inevitable course of action when there is a need to amend choice of words to avoid everyday sexism.

I do believe now he knows this has caused offence, he's not going to be using this expression anymore but when there's an indefinite list of potentially offensive words and unless it's deliberate, you can't know till you've used them and someone takes offence; and in some cases, the consequences of misspeaking can be dire, yes I think some would rather shut up than accidentally fall into that trap.

Easier to change when you know what exactly to change.

Everyday sexism is insidious

Yes indeed. But it’s important to distinguish what is or isn’t sexism. We lose credibility by taking offence where very obviously none is intended. Incivility and self-obsession are also insidious, and increasingly common.

@beginningoftheend

I think a lot of younger women are just not prepared to put up with the low-level bullshit and I admire them for it tbh.

Sexism is a drain and needs consigning to the past in public service roles. The man can go home and say what he likes.

I don't think they are looking to be a victim, I think they are saying casual sexism shouldn't be part of everyday polite conversation and they're right.

God almighty! It must be exhausting being you.

I mean, society runs on people tolerating each other. He could have silently opened the door, but that would have (to me) seemed odd and therefore (because odd behaviour by men can be a danger signal) slightly unnerving. Making a good-natured comment is a kind of social oil, reducing friction in a busy and overcrowded place.

Complaining to his employer was a massive overreaction.

We lose credibility by taking offence where very obviously none is intended

We'll need to rewrite all out equalities laws then.

Because right now they are written from the POV of impact on the minority group, and there is no defence of 'but I didn't mean it', 'can't you take a joke.' or 'stop being so over sensitive'

@GreyhoundG1rl

Yes, why the presumption he was older?

So you're OK with sexism but not ageism...?

Equality laws? Can you actually be serious? I'm very afraid that you are 😂

So you're OK with sexism but not ageism...?
I'm not ok with either, but making an official complaint about a comment like that is ridiculous and makes a mockery of real sexism that matters.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

I mean, society runs on people tolerating each other. He could have silently opened the door, but that would have (to me) seemed odd and therefore (because odd behaviour by men can be a danger signal) slightly unnerving. Making a good-natured comment is a kind of social oil, reducing friction in a busy and overcrowded place.

Complaining to his employer was a massive overreaction.

Indeed. It's quite telling that we've become unable to look at the whole picture/context before arriving to an 'offended' conclusion - one that overshadows the whole because that single part has unnecessarily caused a massive kick-off.

However an equally sexist "needs a womans touch" in common parlance
means cosmically offence is cancelled out.

Janes third law of offence For every offence there is an equal and opposite offence

@GreyhoundG1rl what is your definition of 'real sexism that matters'?

You really can’t say anything nowadays without someone getting offended 🤦🏼‍♀️ He was trying to help her and trying to crack a joke. It would have made me smile. I can’t believe she’s put an official complaint in. The next time he sees a woman who needs help he’ll probably avoid her

It might be sexist, but for goodness sake! I've been guilty of saying the opposite to a man, when he couldn't open a jar and I managed to do it. I HATE this PC nonsense. She was helped to do something she hadn't managed to do by herself, and he made a light hearted comment. She should have just said "Thank you" and left it at that. If he'd said "Madam...stop! Don't try and open that . We prefer men to do those things which require strength and intelligence" then she'd have had cause to complain.

[quote JesusInTheCabbageVan]@GreyhoundG1rl what is your definition of 'real sexism that matters'?[/quote]
In the workplace, maybe? The gender pay gap, men being promoted over equally qualified women, that sort of thing? I'm sure you can think of a few examples yourself if you really try very hard 😉

He could have said "It needed the touch of a person who is competent at opening doors" which we all suspect would have been extremely truthful and also truly offensive.

Actual comment was Not worthy of formal complaint regardless of what was needed to get the door open - for social lubrication reasons someone above said.

I can't tell from the story if the door needed a stronger person to make it open; given men are physically stronger, that would make the comment sensible. I would feel same if younger/taller person was involved and strength/height were required to open the door & someone commented on it.

I would have been happy to have been helped

"Madam...stop! Don't try and open that . We prefer men to do those things which require strength and intelligence"

🤣

How about

it's just a knack, have a good journey

There's no reason for social lubrication to include everyday sexism

@Mydarlingmyhamburger I agree with you.
I was leaving a staff meeting once at the same time as a visitor who had attended the meeting. A male member of staff held the door open for her and the conversation went like this:
Her: "You don't need to hold the door open for me"
Him: "I always hold the door open for ladies"
Her: "I'm not a lady, I'm a woman"
Him: "Well actually I wasn't holding it because you're a lady, I was holding it because I'm a gentleman"