To think a jail sentence for this tragic case of neglect achieves nothing?

[QuadBod]

The mum whose baby drowned in the bath while she was distracted on her phone: BBC News - Northamptonshire mum jailed for killing baby son left alone in bath
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-56860846

Completely tragic, but what does the jail sentence achieve? Publicity perhaps, and maybe that will help to save other lives, but otherwise I don't get it.

Also the judge cannot just make someone an example. The judge can only follow the sentencing laws as they stand, they cannot tweak them because they're feeling grumpy or whatever.
A jury could perhaps be accused of being racially biased but this was the judge.
And not comparable to the McCanns, If some stranger had come into the house and injured the baby yes but this was totally the mother.

[quote multivac]Funny how, in contrast, this case was deemed a 'tragic accident' in court. I believe the poor mum was a spokesperson warning about the danger of leaving your baby unattended in the bath for a while afterwards. What on earth could be the difference, I wonder? www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20110110/288565968896017[/quote]
Responsibility & remorse. I haven't read further than your comment yet, but I'm guessing you're going to say one is black the other white 🙄🙄

There has been similar cases before where mothers have been jailed when their unattended child drowned in the bath. Turned out she had been warned by HV etc before not to do it hence why she received what many thought was a severe punishment and it's possible this was the same for this woman

@Fieldoftheclothofgold

And let’s not forget the consequences if this didn’t mean jail. It would mean it was okay.

No it wouldn't. Plenty of crimes result in non-custodial sentences, no-one claims that that means the crimes are OK.

No it wouldn't. Plenty of crimes result in non-custodial sentences, no-one claims that that means the crimes are OK

They absolutely do. Lots of people think things like possessing class B/C drugs and speeding are trivial. This isn’t trivial. Looking after a baby is a very serious responsibility, and a lack of a custodial sentence for allowing the baby’s death through negligence would send the message that the mother hadn’t really done something that was wrong. It was very wrong. I don’t know enough about the mother’s mental health to know whether there is anything there that I would take into consideration to the point of not jailing her, but I haven’t heard that there is.

Sadly there’s a story like this every year, this is the first one I’ve seen where the parent has been jailed.

Her poor baby died as a result of her neglect. She absolutely should go to jail.

She killed her baby. Lied about it. And continues to show no remorse. What's to stop her having another kid and killing that one, since she doesn't think she did anything wrong.

You can't just kill a baby and carry on with your life like nothing happened.

@Fieldoftheclothofgold

It seems the only thing she lied about was using her phone at the time he drowned. I really hope she can appeal ASAP or at the very least her prison time flies by.

She lied about her negligence. I get that. She was ashamed. I get that, too. But the law looks at the act itself. She left the baby alone deliberately. That is negligence, and it is punishable. She won’t win on appeal. What’s her defence?

I think there is certainly an argument available about whether what she did amounts to gross negligence. People whose careless driving leads to someone dying don't get charged with gross negligence manslaughter. It's what Mick Philpott was convicted of, and I'm not sure people would say that what this mother did is comparable with his offence.

The prosecution has to show:
a) that the circumstances were such that a reasonably prudent person in the defendant's position would have foreseen a serious and obvious risk of death arising from the defendant's act or omission;
b) that the breach of duty was, in all the circumstances, so reprehensible and fell so far below the standards to be expected of a person in the defendant's position with his qualifications, experience and responsibilities that it amounted to a crime.

Everyone on MN is, of course, a perfect parent and will say that obviously they would never do this - but the point is that the standard is not that of an MN perfect parent but someone with the defendant's experience. And even perfect MN parents will admit to having left their babies alone so that they've rolled off beds etc.

People keep saying that this woman showed no remorse, yet the report says that she did. Let's not demonise her for the sake of a good froth.

Nith

I think it was grossly negligent. The risk is drowning is so clear. Leaving your baby for a moment such that they roll off a bed isn’t comparable. To me, it meets the tests you laid out.

And actually, while being far from a perfect parent, I never left my baby alone in a situation where, just by behaving like a baby, they could realistically die.

@Fieldoftheclothofgold

No it wouldn't. Plenty of crimes result in non-custodial sentences, no-one claims that that means the crimes are OK

They absolutely do. Lots of people think things like possessing class B/C drugs and speeding are trivial. This isn’t trivial. Looking after a baby is a very serious responsibility, and a lack of a custodial sentence for allowing the baby’s death through negligence would send the message that the mother hadn’t really done something that was wrong. It was very wrong. I don’t know enough about the mother’s mental health to know whether there is anything there that I would take into consideration to the point of not jailing her, but I haven’t heard that there is.

But non-custodial sentences are passed for much more serious offences that possessing drugs and speeding. So that argument just doesn't work.

But non-custodial sentences are passed for much more serious offences that possessing drugs and speeding. So that argument just doesn't work.

Like what? And are they passed for much more serious offences (in your eyes) than not preventing the avoidable death of a baby?

Leaving a 5 month old in the bath alone is pure neglect. Then she lied about it to police. She deserves the jail time.

I left my 4 year old in the bath for literally 30 secs for the first ever time the other day to grab a new shampoo and I made her talk to me the whole time. I am probably too protective but she can't swim yet (lessons got cancelled with covid) and I would not leave her alone.

Like what? And are they passed for much more serious offences (in your eyes) than not preventing the avoidable death of a baby?

Quite how you extrapolate this from "much more serious offences than possessing drugs and speeding" is a mystery. But in practice non-custodial sentences do get passed for offences up to and including manslaughter following a deliberate act, which I would suggest is more serious than an act of negligence. This case, for instance

Nith

I find it inexplicable that that case didn’t result in a jail sentence. Just as I would find it inexplicable if this one didn’t.

she would struggle to find work after a prison sentance?

AbsolutelyPatsy

True. But it’s not a reason not to issue one. Unless we intend to abolish prison.

There's usually more to it in cases like this - impossible to know by speculation. Very awful for all concerned though.

I partly agree with you.

The McCanns, for example, always denied they were neglectful when they left their 4 year old daughter and 1 year old twins in an unlocked flat, abroad, whilst they were dining in restaurant from where it was impossible to see their flat.

But they got lots of support and threads on here are usually zapped. In this case the woman has been jailed. Both were negligent, grossly so.

@Famousinlove
So out of 1,000 Black female defendants, only 2 were prosecuted and you think this back up your theory?

No that's not what the statistic is showing. Criminal prosecutions are generally low in UK for women. For every 1000 white people in total (not 1000 defendants), 1 is prosecuted. But that doubles if you are black, to 2 in 1000. All low numbers as a percentage of the total population but still a significant disparity.

I absolutely agree with a prison sentence. She's a young woman who could have more children on her release. What would be to stop her - and others like her - doing it again?
And I'm sorry, but if your negligent actions cause the death of your child at only 5 months, then you can bet that other corners would be cut over the years. It was probably a matter of time.

As someone who worked full time (in a very heavy and stressful)l job) from home whilst looking safer two very young children, I don’t think the hot tub case mum is any better or less guilty of neglect.

It was fucking, fucking hard and yes, absolutely agree with the comments re “state-sanctioned neglect”. However there isn’t a conference call in the world that would have seen me let two two year olds go wandering so that I didn’t know where they were. Mine were in the room with me at all times. I brought all their toys down etc. It wasn’t perfect by any means and I’m not saying I watched them closely 24/7 but they were with me. I knew where they were.

@NiceGerbil

I agree.

Unless there was ongoing neglect then this is a worrying precedent.

Parents both male and female take their eye off the ball sometimes.

Poster on here the other day had kid fall into pond at parents. What if worst had happened?

Tragic accident not criminal.

Not really an accident, she was on her phone which she initially lied about. It’s neglect.

A child died from neglect of course she should be in jail .