Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think a jail sentence for this tragic case of neglect achieves nothing?

315 replies

QuadBod · 23/04/2021 20:32

The mum whose baby drowned in the bath while she was distracted on her phone: BBC News - Northamptonshire mum jailed for killing baby son left alone in bath
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-56860846

Completely tragic, but what does the jail sentence achieve? Publicity perhaps, and maybe that will help to save other lives, but otherwise I don't get it.

OP posts:
ChekhovsWorkshoppedShooter · 23/04/2021 20:49

The problem is that we as a society view any sentence other than jail as “a slap on the wrist”. Until that is fixed we are forced to jail anyone who has committed a serious crime even if they do not pose a risk to society if they are allowed free.

Aliceandthemarchhare · 23/04/2021 20:50

I feel so sorry for both in this.

A jail sentence achieves nothing. I’m sure the poor woman will be in prison for the rest of her life.

Pixxie7 · 23/04/2021 20:51

There may be more to it than we know, whilst I agree with you on one level, if she didn’t it could set a precedent for others.

AngstyMom · 23/04/2021 20:52

@ChekhovsWorkshoppedShooter

The problem is that we as a society view any sentence other than jail as “a slap on the wrist”. Until that is fixed we are forced to jail anyone who has committed a serious crime even if they do not pose a risk to society if they are allowed free.
Her baby is dead. Even if there'd been no charges pressed at all, I wouldn't have said she'd gotten off lightly.
Aliceandthemarchhare · 23/04/2021 20:52

I really doubt anyone would read this and decide on the basis of a woman not going to jail it would be okay to drown their baby.

Fieldoftheclothofgold · 23/04/2021 20:52

It clearly wouldn't. A non-custodial sentence is still a sentence. And no one is going to hear this story and think that copying her parenting is a jolly good idea, regardless of any fall-out

I really don’t agree. Some parents kill their children. It’s awful, and there are often factors that play into it. But ultimately if this passed without a custodial sentence I think it would happen more often.

Rinoachicken · 23/04/2021 20:54

I think it’s her lack of remorse, failure to accept responsibility and her attempts to cover up what had happened that have led to greater sentence.

If she had been honest, distraught and knew she was to blame she’d likely have been let free

multivac · 23/04/2021 20:55

Funny how, in contrast, this case was deemed a 'tragic accident' in court. I believe the poor mum was a spokesperson warning about the danger of leaving your baby unattended in the bath for a while afterwards. What on earth could be the difference, I wonder? www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20110110/288565968896017

MorganSeventh · 23/04/2021 20:56

Going by the judge's and defence barrister's comments, there are other things going on in that case which the public are not privy to, and nor should they necessarily be. This is often the case with criminal proceedings and while I don't believe judges are infallible, neither do the public have the full facts.

Jellybabiesforbreakfast · 23/04/2021 20:56

We often make suboptimal decisions as parents because being a parent is so hard and relentless. I bought a sleepyhead for my child despite it not being in line with safe sleep guidance because I was so damned tired from a non-sleeping baby that I was walking around like a zombie and had started to wake up hallucinating about him falling out the window when he was safe in his cot beside me. Many baby deaths result from unsafe co-sleeping. Children fall out of unfastened windows. This mother did a stupid, stupid thing and her poor baby died, but we all have lapses of judgement as new parents partly due to tiredness and sleep deprivation.

Fieldoftheclothofgold · 23/04/2021 20:57

I really doubt anyone would read this and decide on the basis of a woman not going to jail it would be okay to drown their baby.

Nobody except sociopathic people and psychotic people think it’s ‘okay’ to drown a baby. But people still do it.

user1636853246842157 · 23/04/2021 20:57

If prison works as a deterrent, why have prisons not become empty and therefore obsolete?

MarcelinesMa · 23/04/2021 20:58

She fucked up utterly but I think her baby dying is punishment enough. She doesn’t
deserve a prison sentence on top of what is probably horrendous guilt. Yeah she lied about using her phone when she should have been supervising her baby but maybe she was ashamed about that? She called 999 straight away and tried to resuscitate him, it wasn’t like she didn’t care or tried to cover up her son’s drowning- she did all the right things to try to save him. It seems the only thing she lied about was using her phone at the time he drowned. I really hope she can appeal ASAP or at the very least her prison time flies by.

Fieldoftheclothofgold · 23/04/2021 20:59

This mother did a stupid, stupid thing and her poor baby died, but we all have lapses of judgement as new parents partly due to tiredness and sleep deprivation.

There is a huge difference between co-sleeping (that has a tiny risk attached) and leaving a 5 month old baby alone in bath water. Unless the mother was completely out of her mind with exhaustion - in which case I suppose that would have been the defence, and I’d sympathise - it’s negligence.

Fieldoftheclothofgold · 23/04/2021 21:01

It seems the only thing she lied about was using her phone at the time he drowned. I really hope she can appeal ASAP or at the very least her prison time flies by.

She lied about her negligence. I get that. She was ashamed. I get that, too. But the law looks at the act itself. She left the baby alone deliberately. That is negligence, and it is punishable. She won’t win on appeal. What’s her defence?

OverTheRainbow88 · 23/04/2021 21:02

Such a tragic and preventable death.

Aprilshowersandhail · 23/04/2021 21:02

She lied by omission about being on her phone.. Her first thought was to lessen her crime not the death of her ds..
Poor baby.

Fieldoftheclothofgold · 23/04/2021 21:02

If prison works as a deterrent, why have prisons not become empty and therefore obsolete?

That’s not the question. Would crime not rise if we abolished prison?

DenisetheMenace · 23/04/2021 21:02

Today 20:35 NiceGerbil

I agree.

Unless there was ongoing neglect then this is a worrying precedent.

Parents both male and female take their eye off the ball sometimes.

Poster on here the other day had kid fall into pond at parents. What if worst had happened?

Tragic accident not criminal.“

Bollocks. No-one “accidentally” leaves a 5 month old baby alone in water. Negligence of the worst order.

KingdomScrolls · 23/04/2021 21:05

Look at criminal justice stats and research, she's not only female she's also not white, both groups much more likely to receive custodial sentences than community based ones for like offences and for mitigations not to have the same impact on sentencing. Prison was inevitable.

user1636853246842157 · 23/04/2021 21:06

She didn't drown her baby. She was inattentive for 4 minutes having provided an otherwise satisfactory level of care throughout her baby's life.

The only difference between her and distraught posters on here who've been distracted and had their baby fall off a bed or a sofa or down stairs or into a pond and been injured but survived is luck.

Same with posters discussing the various times they leave babies unsupervised to buy milk or shower or do a work out... Or scroll through mumsnet for 4 minutes.

She called an ambulance immediately. She attempted resuscitation . She was immediately honest that she had left the room, she never lied or concealed that. The only part she left out was being on her phone at the time.

AngstyMom · 23/04/2021 21:06

What’s her defence?

Being human, and therefore prone to errors in judgement?

KingdomScrolls · 23/04/2021 21:07

@multivac absolutely

JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows · 23/04/2021 21:08

She left a 5 month old alone in a bath for 5 minutes because apparently WhatsApp message can't be sent from a bathroom. I don't believe anyone is that stupid...why wouldn't she deserve a jail sentence?

Would you say the same if it was a man who'd done this?

Fieldoftheclothofgold · 23/04/2021 21:08

user1636853246842157

She left a five month old baby alone in the bath for four minutes. It’s negligence unless she was incapacitated. The baby died. The sentence is realistic. It’s not comparable to falling asleep or an accident. She did it on purpose and the consequences (although clearly not intended) were obvious.