To think a jail sentence for this tragic case of neglect achieves nothing?

[QuadBod]

The mum whose baby drowned in the bath while she was distracted on her phone: BBC News - Northamptonshire mum jailed for killing baby son left alone in bath
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-56860846

Completely tragic, but what does the jail sentence achieve? Publicity perhaps, and maybe that will help to save other lives, but otherwise I don't get it.

Yabu that poor baby.

@Fieldoftheclothofgold

If prison works as a deterrent, why have prisons not become empty and therefore obsolete?

That’s not the question. Would crime not rise if we abolished prison?

Did it rise when we abolished the death penalty?

[quote multivac]Funny how, in contrast, this case was deemed a 'tragic accident' in court. I believe the poor mum was a spokesperson warning about the danger of leaving your baby unattended in the bath for a while afterwards. What on earth could be the difference, I wonder? www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20110110/288565968896017[/quote]
The difference seems to be in the admitting of guilt and the remorse shown

What do you think the difference is?

I think this was a Horrible lapse in judgement, but can't help feeling that there are lots of other cases like this where the police and inquest made a different decision and did not pursue criminal proceedings. I do think a lot of it is to do with your social standing and how much you pay your lawyers tbh

It's also worth pointing out that custodial sentences are handed out depending on the behaviour of the perpetrator - in other words, if you're genuinely remorseful and are able to take responsibility then a judge will look more favourably on you. This woman didn't. That has an affect. Not comparing the cases but it's part of the reason Adam Johnson got a long sentence. Dicked the judge about with changing verdicts so he could remain playing football..laughing in the dock...not seeing the big deal in what he'd done...no remorse. Those things have an impact for a reason.

@Fieldoftheclothofgold

user1636853246842157

She left a five month old baby alone in the bath for four minutes. It’s negligence unless she was incapacitated. The baby died. The sentence is realistic. It’s not comparable to falling asleep or an accident. She did it on purpose and the consequences (although clearly not intended) were obvious.

I haven't suggested anywhere that it wasn't negligent.

However it is not the same as deliberately drowning her child, which is what people are saying she did. I take issue with people misrepresenting what occurred.

A child died as a result of neglect. Of course she deserves prison.

I haven't suggested anywhere that it wasn't negligent

Right. And as sad as this is, her sentence is consistent with her crime. Her negligence killed a person.

Today 21:06 user1636853246842157

She didn't drown her baby. She was inattentive for 4 minutes having provided an otherwise satisfactory level of care throughout her baby's life.

The only difference between her and distraught posters on here who've been distracted and had their baby fall off a bed or a sofa or down stairs or into a pond and been injured but survived is luck. “

Oh FFS, leaving a 5 month old baby alone in water is not “inattentive”, it’s negligent. Luck has sod all to do with it.

Who TAF would leave their 5 month old baby unattended at the top of the stairs or next to a pond? Unbelievable.

I can imagine people leaving their child on a sofa or a bed: I can confidently say I didn’t because I am extremely cautious, not a perfect parent . The difference is, babies don’t generally die falling off of sofas.

I can’t believe anyone is trying to justify leaving a baby alone in the bath. Gobsmacked. Thankfully, the court agreed.

This woman isn’t of white British heritage Bloodypunkrockers

Sorry but I think anybody knows you never leave a baby alone in the bath, seat or no seat it isn't safe let alone for that length of time.
She was negligent and he died as a result of that so yes she deserved a jail sentence.

It does seem a disproportionate punishment to me. The mother didn't actually kill the child. Can only think there must be more to it.

Well you could say the same for many manslaughter cases. Accidentally kill someone while you're driving? Surely taking away their license would be enough?

"Accidentally" killing someone whilst driving (often due to mobile phone use or a badly maintained vehicle or driving too fast for the conditions) is very rarely classed as manslaughter, and doesn't often result in a prison sentence. A year's driving ban, few hundred pound fine and community service is a typical punishment.

Perhaps if she had not lied about being on her phone (which she knew was neglectful) the Judge might have been more sympathetic .

I thought that phone records had shown she spent 17 minutes messaging or whatever.

Did it rise when we abolished the death penalty?

That’s a reasonable question. But it’s not quite the same. This is the difference between prison and no prison, whereas the abolition of the DP was the difference between life in prison and death.

She was convicted of gross negligence manslaughter. The definition of that is ‘where the death is a result of a grossly negligent (though otherwise lawful) act or omission on the part of the defendant.’

You have to prove

a) The defendant owed a duty of care to the deceased;

b) By a negligent act or omission the defendant was in breach of the duty which he owed to the deceased;

c) The negligent act or omission was a cause of the death; and

d) The negligence, which was a cause of the death, amounts to gross negligence and is therefore a crime;

Would crime not rise if we abolished prison?

The countries with the highest proportions of the population in prison also have the highest crime rates. Crime is more to do with poverty and inequality than punishment. Prison isn't an effective deterrent to many criminals - they don't really care as their lives are so rubbish.

Well, she's a black woman so the institutionally racist justice system will not have treated her kindly. A white man doing the exact same thing would be very unlikely to go to prison.

On the other hand, the best her defence can say about her is that this ""lapse" had occurred amid an otherwise satisfactory standard of care."

The bar for "satisfactory" care of a child is very low indeed, so there may have been other concerns that didn't reach the threshold for removal or prosecution.

The countries with the highest proportions of the population in prison also have the highest crime rates. Crime is more to do with poverty and inequality than punishment

I agree, generally. I just don’t know how it’s true here.

@user1636853246842157

She didn't drown her baby. She was inattentive for 4 minutes having provided an otherwise satisfactory level of care throughout her baby's life.

The only difference between her and distraught posters on here who've been distracted and had their baby fall off a bed or a sofa or down stairs or into a pond and been injured but survived is luck.

Same with posters discussing the various times they leave babies unsupervised to buy milk or shower or do a work out... Or scroll through mumsnet for 4 minutes.

She called an ambulance immediately. She attempted resuscitation . She was immediately honest that she had left the room, she never lied or concealed that. The only part she left out was being on her phone at the time.

Not all risks are equal!! Putting a baby on a sofa where a fall would be highly unlikely to do damage behind a broken arm is not the same as leaving a child who's probably unable to sit up yet in a bath for 5 whole minutes to send a message! It's not bad luck, it's negligence

Also I can't believe someone compared this to the poor poster the other day whose toddler fell in a pond (and was fine) when the toddler was being cared for by someone else!! Are you actually kidding that you think that's negligence on behalf of a parent?

No I mean she probably wouldn't have been keen to see her parent/s imprisoned over it.

Well, she's a black woman so the institutionally racist justice system will not have treated her kindly. A white man doing the exact same thing would be very unlikely to go to prison.

Sorry but what a load of crap. If a white man had consistently lied and lacked remorse he'd have been sent to prison too.

There’s a grey space though james between a completely unavoidable accident and this.

I dropped my phone on baby ds on Monday. I felt so awful. I was lucky it was his cheek and not his head and he still cried so much.

It was an awful thing to do. I imagine she probably did it before and all was fine, then it wasn’t fine. How awful

I doubt a white mc woman would be hailed for this to be honest.