To think a jail sentence for this tragic case of neglect achieves nothing?

[QuadBod]

The mum whose baby drowned in the bath while she was distracted on her phone: BBC News - Northamptonshire mum jailed for killing baby son left alone in bath
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-56860846

Completely tragic, but what does the jail sentence achieve? Publicity perhaps, and maybe that will help to save other lives, but otherwise I don't get it.

FFS my opinion was formed before I knew her race - which I only knew as it was mentioned on here which I read after I posted my thoughts. Not every act of disagreeing with a POC is based on racism, and it's getting boring bow when people jump to that conclusion.

Also we have no idea what class she is

@Dingleydel agreed. I guarantee if this had been a white middle class, professional, partnered/married woman then she would have not been charged and it would have been put down as a tragic accident.

Oh and BTW my own children are mixed race. Poor things, having a racist mother too 🙄

[quote Froggie456]@Dingleydel agreed. I guarantee if this had been a white middle class, professional, partnered/married woman then she would have not been charged and it would have been put down as a tragic accident.[/quote]
The article doesn't say her class
It doesn't say if she's married

You can't "guarantee" anything - stop making assumptions of ulterior motives - propel are quite simply allowed to have a different opinion to you

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

Oh and BTW my own children are mixed race. Poor things, having a racist mother too 🙄

Who said you were racist? People really are reading some odd stuff into things on this thread.

I don't think a jail term is appropriate in this case. The poor mum will be haunted over it every day of her life. My ds when he was about 2.5 almost got run over by a reversing driver when I took my eye off him for one second whilst distracted by my other child.

The article also doesn't state her profession - the fact you assume she's an unskilled working class single mother based on literally nothing other than her skin colour says a hell of a lot more about you than anyone else

Who said you were racist? People really are reading some odd stuff into things on this thread.

Don't be obtuse now, if nothing else it's just tedious

I just read that and thought the same thing.

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

Who said you were racist? People really are reading some odd stuff into things on this thread.

Don't be obtuse now, if nothing else it's just tedious

I don't think we think differently because you are racist; I think we disagree in this case on whether institutional racism is a relevant factor. Clear enough?

To be honest james you are the one being not only obtuse but aggressive and I have agreed with you in the past but you are just shouting down everyone now.

@Dingleydel

A prison sentence seems pointless in this case. Although there have been several cases where mothers who have left babies in the bath have been prosecuted. Oddly though the mother who left her twins unattended for 2 hours whilst on conference calls whilst one crawled into a hot tub and drowned was not. I wonder what the difference is in the eyes of the law? Both seem like they are momentary lapses in judgment. I’ve known several parents admit they left babies/toddlers to nip and get a towel only to come back and find them underwater (and read several MN threads on the topic). I wonder where they draw the line between lapse of judgment and serous neglect. When the parent is specifically doing something else like being on the phone?

I actually thought that in that case there seemed to be an almost deliberate studied avoidance of the fact that this happened because parents were told to work from home without childcare for preschoolers in the first lockdown. The coroner said there were 'no lessons to be learned from the case'; I couldn't disagree more strongly but there seems to have been a collective denial about the fact it was essentially government policy to put the youngest children in a situation that would have previously been considered neglect.

I think it’s really harsh to send this woman to prison. I doubt for one second that she thought leaving the bathroom could result in her child’s death. What next jailing parent a who’s kids are tragically knocked down or drown. Accidents happen and no one is perfect we all make mistakes.

My ds when he was about 2.5 almost got run over by a reversing driver when I took my eye off him for one second whilst distracted by my other child.

But this really isn’t the same. Me too. We’ve all taken our eyes off for a second.

I doubt for one second that she thought leaving the bathroom could result in her child’s death.

This would mean she didn’t understand either the idea of drowning, or her child’s ability to hold his head above water. Really?

@NiceGerbil

I agree.

Unless there was ongoing neglect then this is a worrying precedent.

Parents both male and female take their eye off the ball sometimes.

Poster on here the other day had kid fall into pond at parents. What if worst had happened?

Tragic accident not criminal.

Not watching your kid in the bath because you are on your phone isn't an accident.

@Fieldoftheclothofgold

I doubt for one second that she thought leaving the bathroom could result in her child’s death.

This would mean she didn’t understand either the idea of drowning, or her child’s ability to hold his head above water. Really?

Precisely that defence worked for Amy Denning. She became a spokesperson to reassure awareness of the danger of shallow bathwater.

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

But both resulted in death - they aren't comparable of course...but it isn't an easy feat to allow a child to die, only serious failures result in this, and I don't think a custodial sentence in any cases like either of these is unfair.

This sort of makes it sound like the death was inevitable in this case, but I would guess that she really thought he was safe in the chair. DS had one of those and while I would never, ever have left him unattended in it (and it does say all over the packaging not to) I also don't remember ever having to grab him because he slipped out of it or anything like that. It's not like she'd just left him wobbily sat up on his own or similar. There was a clear element of bad luck here, the overwhelming odds were that he'd still be sat in the seat just fine when she came back.

It’s true we don’t know her profession or her social class. No one knows the details of the case 100% and there are probably other factors. I just have a sneaky suspicion that if she were a solicitor/ accountant or some other solidly middle class professional it would probably be included in the report. If you look at other similar cases it does seem to be the case that middle class white parent = accident. Anyone else = manslaughter.

There is a pattern of that emerging isn’t there

I suppose you could argue that while she's in prison she can't get pregnant again, so therefore can't endanger her next child, or put it through the trauma of being removed from her.

@HunterHearstHelmsley

Does jail time achieve anything at any other time? A random spree killer is unlikely to do it again, should we let them off? An estranged father kills his children to hurt his ex, should we let them off? A drink driver accidentally mows someone down, them too?

Jail sentences are designed to keep the public safe especially from people who do not accept responsibility for their behaviour. Also as punishment for serious crime.

I'm not convinced that this bereaved mother is a danger to the public or any family members. The judge says the mother does not accept responsibility for her actions but I'm not sure that further shaming and punishment are going to allow her to grow or take responsibility. Just tragic all round.

I know someone whose baby drowned in a bath seat when she ran to answer the phone (when landlines were still a thing). No charges. Can't help but think there's a socio economic bias at play here.

I couldn't disagree more strongly but there seems to have been a collective denial about the fact it was essentially government policy to put the youngest children in a situation that would have previously been considered neglect.

Totally agree. It was bizarre that the judge said that. I completely sympathise with that mother and the pressures she was under but there’s absolutely no denying it was neglect. A sort of state sanctioned neglect and it was going on up and down the country.

@Fieldoftheclothofgold

I doubt for one second that she thought leaving the bathroom could result in her child’s death.

This would mean she didn’t understand either the idea of drowning, or her child’s ability to hold his head above water. Really?

The baby was in a bath seat, not just sitting unsupported in a bath. When they're in bath seats and you sit with them, they look at you. When you leave the room, they look around and move making them at risk of toppling. The suctions on the bottom of the seat can wear thin and give way when the baby's weight shifts.

@FurrySlipperBoots

I suppose you could argue that while she's in prison she can't get pregnant again, so therefore can't endanger her next child, or put it through the trauma of being removed from her.

Please God tell me you are trying to be satirical.