to not beleive that a women not breast feed is selfish and using 'i couldnt' as an excuse?

[aleciawalton]

im a mum of 1 who bf till 15 months, and now pregnant with second and will bf. i also am a breast friend and took training to support mums who are bfeeding. ( learned how milk is produced, history, attachment...)

i just think that too many women use 'i couldnt bf' as an excuse. its only been in the last 50 to 60 years bottles and formula have been around. what happened back then??? did more then 50% of the babys die? no cuase back then 99% women breast fed! why could they do it then and not now???
i just feel it a cop out and the mums are just being selfish.
yes its hard, but so was labour, so raising a kid. however they choise to have the baby. i know it takes time and comittment and not having that all important wine drink. but i personaly think that its for how long??? if i can give my child the best start and yes it can take a year or 2 but is my child not worth it??
if some one said to you while prego you have a choise to either have your baby and make your child as healthy as it can be or just have the baby, what would you want? why do we give the baby vitamine K, if not to help the baby be healthy. would you not get your baby vaccinated?

sorry just makes me mad. when i hear my nipples hurt and thats cant be normal so i stopped. or babys 3 weeks old and wanted feeding all the time so it ment i didnt have enough milk so i stopped. or there's a xmas party i want to go to so im not going to bf. the exuces go one. i really love the one 'bf is not natural, its disusting'. WTF were breast made for then and why does milk come out of them???

AMEN,LoveAngel...

Peer support is often used as a "we need bodies out there supporting women and knowing when a problem's too much for them to handle to be referred to a bfc" because there aren't enough bfcs out there, for many reasons.

Ironically, Tiktok, I've just emailed you about peer support...!

But I think if you're near the start of your own bf experience and you had a fairly easy time of it and are Quite Evangelical about it, you probably should be careful about why you're wanting to be a peer supporter.

i certainly think it would be worth Alecia really listening to the women she meets who don't/can't bf. she needs to shut her mouth and open her ears, i'm afraid. i think that if she can bear to come down off her perch and read this thread with an open heart, she could learn an awful lot, for starters.

How dare you!!!!!

I had twins and had a horrendous time I tried my absolute best I couldn't have tried any harder. I was bleeding, in agony ,dreading every feed and not bonding with my boys.

One of them was loosing far too much weight so my midwife told me I had no choice to bring in bottles otherwise he'd have had to be admitted. The relief was amazing, I actually started enjoying my babies. I'm not a quitter but I physically and mentally couldn't do anymore.

When my daughter came along I was determined to do it but again endured an absolute nightmare thanks to a bullying midwife with views like yours. DD ended up rushed into SCIB dehydrated, malnurished and jaundised. The consultant was furious I hadn't started to use bottles. I then ended up with PND as I felt such a failure.

Many thanks for bringing all the feelings of guilt and unhappiness back.

Thankfully 3 years on I now have the sense to realise that however upsetting it was for me a few months of formula is not going to do a baby any harm at all. Far better to have a happy healthy mum that actually enjoys feeding thier baby. So any vulnerable new mums out their struggling as I did please don't let this thread upset you.

where's the OP?

I'm not being dramatic when I say I have several friends who are quite literally emotionally scarred by their early BF experiences.As a result they've decided not to try at all with their sunsequent dcs which is so sad.

their trauma stems from the difficult times they had feeding, coupled with hungry distressed babies (who sometimes ended up on SCBU for dehydration) and unsympathetic, misinformed and judgmental health professionals/counsellors who made them feel inadequate when they were at their most vulnerable. BF stress DOES play a role in PND IMO and certainly in PN Anxiety, especially amongst educated devoted Mums who're desparate to not be seen as a failure.

For the mental health of all mums and their partners this is an issue that needs addressing comprehensively and sensitively at all levels, including these "buddies".

it's encouraging to hear that "proper" counsellors are vetted for such prejudices prior to starting their course.

Oh Dear.....
I was really lucky and bf fine, but I can remember sitting in John Lewis toilets with my best friend as she sobbed hysterically whilst struggling to bf her 3m dd. As I had seen and supported her in this state from birth I think I actually encouraged her to switch to ff. Does this make me or her a bad person? I personally think not..
So to put the cat amongst the pigeons what are the MN views on bf children to 5 /6 yrs?

me too

Sorry the 'me too' was to Loveangelgabriel, busy here isn't it!

One difficulty is that the whole issue is very complex and a lot of the time you don't realize how much you don't know till you've learnt more, and that takes time.

I think we all have a tendency to think to ourselves "I can't understand why she would do that!" and instead of stopping right there and admitting our ignorance, we can tend to make unwarranted jumps to thinking "I can't see the reason, so it must be due some personal deficiency of that person".

This works in all directions, e.g.

"I can't understand why she is banging on about formula advertising being bad - it must just be because she's a horrible 'BF nazi'".

and

"I can't understand why she stopped BF - it must just be because she's selfish".

With both of those examples, the person thinking would do better to stop at "I can't understand" and move on to "perhaps I could try to learn more about this and understand her reasons" instead of going straight to the 'easy' answer of a personal failing on the part of that person.

A particular difficulty with BF is that it can seem straightfoward on the surface while being complex underneath so that makes it take even more effort and time than most of us have to explore more just in case our first conclusion might be wrong...

In answer to ingles question - I'm totally fine with mothers Bf-ing for as long as it's working out for both mum and child. That's the thing - just because I didn't Bf for very long doesn't mean I'm anti-BF. I am very much pro-BF-ing, including extended BF-ing, if that's what works best for the woman, child and family unit as a whole. It doesn't always have to escalate into a 'BF versus FF' handbagss-at-dawn scenario, does it?

And so we come full circle
Haven't seen a thread like this for a couple of years (happily).
There was a sea-change in the discussion of this topic and I feel that was for the better, since crappy attitudes like the OP's never help, can only hurt and hinder.
It's perfectly possible to make the same points as she does without attacking. I do wonder where the need to attack comes from.

In answer to OP - yes, I did breastfeed (for 18 months). No, I would not have my baby vaccinated.

I don't think either of these choices make me a 'better' or 'worse' or 'more dedicated' or 'selfish' or whatever mother. Just one who makes the choices that I feel are best for me and my child.

The things is...and you can all crucify me...I thought that too until recently when a woman I know bf her 6 yr old son..he ran in from playing football and grabbed her boob...I have to admit to being a bit revolted...sorry

being a mum is hard blood work emotionally mentally physically- why make it any harder. time to regroup and celebrate common bond eg we are all mums

well i did not breastfeed.

i have a 36 g bust which kills me at the best of times and got even worse when i was pregnant, by the time my first dd came along all i wanted was to be able to move my arms without tears coming to my eyes.

this is not a excuse to why i did not do it but it is a reason, had i tried i possibly would have been able to do it but i felt it was not for me.

comments like the op's totally wash over my head now, i know i am a fantastic mum and how i fed my dd'd has got nothing to do with that.

i bonded with my dd's right from the second they were put in my arms and that bond would never have been made any stronger had she been breatfed.

being a mum has enough challanges without someone giving you a hard time about what way you feed your dc

I agree about the OP coming back and listening with an open heart, Aitch, and the risk with a volley of 'fuck offs' is that is all that she will hear....

People are coming on and reading the OP only (pisses me off....that's why 'discussions' don't move on somehow) and throwing the identical points into the mix, and the whole issue froths and foams all over again.

Where are you Alecia?

I confess to being a sumg breastfeeder. I had no problems at all. Yes I was knackered, feeding every hour and half, and sitting with cabbage leaves on my boobs in between, but didn't even consider giving up. I never experienced any pain or problems and dd thrived, so was a very happy teddy.

I used to listen to others saying how they 'had to give up' or 'couldn't breastfeed' and think they must have just been weaker than me.....or not interested in trying.... but never, never , never did I realise just how awful it could be. I didn't know anyone else who b/f at the same time as me so didn't realise how simply bloody awful some mums had it.

When I first read the OP I thought I would agree with her, even if I did find it a bit harsh (the way it was written). But OMG reading some of the stories here has made me so thoroghly ashamed of myself and the way I used to think that I am sitting here with my cheeks flaming and wanting to go out and train as a breast friend or bf councillor or whatever just so I could make amends.

I wish everyone who wanted to could breastfeed. It must be awful to want to do it and not be able to. I wish there were enough councillors to go around and I truly truly wish that aleciawalton will learn from what she has read here, just as I have.

If you could keep these discussions in the breast and bottle feeding topic that would be marvellous.

TIA.

That's a great post, MamaD.

Haven't read whole thread, got to page 6 and my 6 week old has started stirring.

This is quite an emotive subject for me at the moment. My right nipple has only just healed over having become cracked during the first few days of bf. And I finished my antibiotics for a bad case of mastitis yesterday.

Its been hellish at times to be honest, and there have been times when it would have been sooo easy to send DH out for formula.
BUT I am very proud of myself for carrying on.
My HV and GP both commented that bad mastitis is often a reason for women stopping bf. I don't like to use the term 'giving up' after I came so close to doing the same. It wouldn't have been 'giving up' it would have been making me happy, stopping the pain, stopping my dd throwing up infection ridden milk etc.

I do think there is a woeful lack of support for bf and for mum's who choose to bf. In a postnatal group of 4, I am the only one bf - and yesterday was made to feel like a complete hippy for not joining in a discussion about ounces, bottles and weaning at 16 weeks. BUT it is down to the individual, those women made their decisions, and I made mine.

xx

PS. Just because I am proud of my achievement - does not make me smug or a bf nazi, I would never say anything to another woman about the choice she made - but am entitled to be happy/satisfied with mine.

What I find really worrying is not that the OP holds these opinions, but that she's come to this conclusion having been on a course on breastfeeding.

What the hell are they teaching people?

Sounds like the same course they send HV's on.

I people with views like this plain ignorant.

alecia - appreciate you said you were leaving mn, so you may not see this unless you are lurking, i hope that lots of the ladies on here have opened your eyes up to all the different reasons for stoppping bf or not doing it. and that you are able to use these experiences when supporting mums in your role as a breast friend.