to not beleive that a women not breast feed is selfish and using 'i couldnt' as an excuse?

[aleciawalton]

im a mum of 1 who bf till 15 months, and now pregnant with second and will bf. i also am a breast friend and took training to support mums who are bfeeding. ( learned how milk is produced, history, attachment...)

i just think that too many women use 'i couldnt bf' as an excuse. its only been in the last 50 to 60 years bottles and formula have been around. what happened back then??? did more then 50% of the babys die? no cuase back then 99% women breast fed! why could they do it then and not now???
i just feel it a cop out and the mums are just being selfish.
yes its hard, but so was labour, so raising a kid. however they choise to have the baby. i know it takes time and comittment and not having that all important wine drink. but i personaly think that its for how long??? if i can give my child the best start and yes it can take a year or 2 but is my child not worth it??
if some one said to you while prego you have a choise to either have your baby and make your child as healthy as it can be or just have the baby, what would you want? why do we give the baby vitamine K, if not to help the baby be healthy. would you not get your baby vaccinated?

sorry just makes me mad. when i hear my nipples hurt and thats cant be normal so i stopped. or babys 3 weeks old and wanted feeding all the time so it ment i didnt have enough milk so i stopped. or there's a xmas party i want to go to so im not going to bf. the exuces go one. i really love the one 'bf is not natural, its disusting'. WTF were breast made for then and why does milk come out of them???

Huhuh, can I just hijack this post and ask GINGERNINGER if she's a newbie because I'm feeling a bit sensative about her choice of name. Would you mind changing it please? Many thanks, hijack over

why can't we just live and let live a tiny whiny bit. Yes! the majority of women who do not breastfeed probably they don't do it because they do not want to and say it's because they can't. some others physically cannot, many others psychologically cannot make it.
so what???
yes breast is best but formula feeding is not child abuse, or is it? how would you like someone to check what food you give to your toddler (chips, nuggets, tinned pasta etc) and crucify you as much as all the righteous breastfeeding ones do.

we are not perfect and we all fail in some bits of motherhood. the non breastfeeding ones are so unlucky as their shortcoming are public, others are luckily not so.

PS: I have breastfed for 6 months then stopped because I had enough, for various reasons. Does that makes me better than those who stopped earlier and worse than you who went on for 15 months??

oh you righteous militant ones makes me want to formula feed my next one right from day one!!

i agree that most women can technically BF, as in, yes they have breasts, but sadly we dont live in a perfect world where all women can produce enough milk to BF, or all babies can latch on, or all babies are well enough to BF, or all women are well enough to BF, or all women are educated enough about BFing, or all women have enough support to BF....i could go on and on...

That's what I mean Victorian Squalor, it is good to hear from people like you re:not being able to breastfeed. It has opened my eyes a lot to these problems.
I think, especially with a first child, it's important not to let your pride in breastfeeding overlap into smugness.
It's all about the bigger picture really. As with motherhood you learn as you go along. I am sure the OP has also learnt a lot today, and I hope she takes the more intelligent responses and stays with MN.

i think it is scarey that aleciawalton is proporting to be a breast friend OMG please address your own deep rooted issues and entrenched prejudical attitudes towards other mother's and their feeding choices.

seek out additional support
clarification of your role and remit
go google the word empathy
take a deep breath, and hopefully reflect upon your appalling OP and the experiential narratives other mums have shared with you

I don't reckon that the op was inflammatory enough to set off the righteous ire that has been vented so far on this thread.

Breastfeeding is good for babies.
Some people physically or mentally can't handle it.
Formula is a very good food for babies if they can't get breastmilk.
If a child is not being abused it's upbringing is the sole responsibility of it's parents. How they choose to feed it is up to them.
Formula producing multinationals produce propoganda which must and should be countered by breastfeeding propoganda for the sake of balance.

furthermore
you don't need to be a medical professional to have a valid opinion.
pretending to be someone that you are not is amusing but ultimately pointless
spelling is not the sole indicator of intelligence although a lot of people on mumsnet seem to think it is.

Perspective please.....very few people are bf militants, and very few people on here (2? 3?) have issued any form of judgement on people who don't bf. Most people do have an idea of what goes on, and how wide ranging people's experiences can be.

(And enough with the spelling corrections already. Dear me. That really is a low blow. The people who pick up on other people's spellings inevitably make errors themselves at some point, and end up looking like dickheads. IMHO. Mentioning no names.)

I couldn't breastfeed because of the drugs I was on.

That didn't stop the nurses in the hospital giving me a hard time without looking at my notes. They didn't bother to stop and check first and i felt bad enough about it already without them haranguing me.

I feel the same about the op

Can't believe that people even bother to justify themselves on threads like this one.

Your choices on how you raise your baby are your choices and yours alone.

I would not listen to any 'breast friend' who had views such as they have.

I am not trying to justify
just to make the op see that a blanket view like this is not helpful or supportive

Hi Alicia,

I?m actually glad that you posted. I?ve run into this opinion a few times in ?real life? but never felt able to respond.

I stopped breast feeding my dd at around 3 months. I had lots of problems with breast feeding but struggled on. At 6 weeks I started to develop very severe PND and by 3 months I was hospitalized in a mother / baby unit. I can honestly say that this was the worst experience of my life and wouldn?t wish it on anyone.

My doctors knew that I was breastfeeding so we first tried anti-depressants that were compatible with breastfeeding, but unfortunately they did not work. When I was put onto a higher dosage of anti-depressant and also given anti-psychotics, I had to stop breastfeeding because the anti-psychotics would have been harmful to LO. I could also smell medication in my milk (I was paranoid at the time so not sure if this part was real).

It was not an easy decision to make, but I feel that it was the right one for my family. It?s difficult when I?m asked about my reasons for not breastfeeding. There are still stigmas attached with mental illness so I don?t want to share the details of my personal story. To hear someone say ?mothers who don?t breastfeed are selfish? is hurtful and doesn?t seem to fit with everything that I?ve gone through.

If you are going to be a breast buddy, I think you should see things from a different perspective. Because I have (some) experience with breastfeeding, I definitely have a better appreciation of breastfeeding issues. I support women?s rights to breastfeed and would definitely have words with anyone who tried to a breastfeeding mother a hard time. Maybe a mother who ?only? breastfed her baby for a few months will go on to feed the next one for longer or else help steer a friend who is struggling with breastfeeding towards support networks. But if you start labelling them as 'selfish' then maybe they will just end up with a negative attitude about breastfeeding.

Sorry for the rambling but it felt good to vent! Good luck with your pregnancy.

tiktok,I agree. I really don't like name calling like breast feeding brigade and bf militants/nazis. It is demeaning to all.

The Op is entitled to her own opinion but she should keep it to herself!! I originally signed up to Mumsnet cos I thought it was supposed to be supportive!?!!

Some posters on here use it as a thinly disguised veneer to rant and bitch about their own superciclious misguided views, I bet they'd be sickly sweet and sacharine in RL.

However I think the majority of posts on here echo the majority opinion that POs view are unhelpful and downright unneccessary. What did women do 50+ years ago??? Wet nurses, cows milk and less than 30years ago baby rice @ 6 weeks. Do you really think they had the WHO guidelines on their wall and did it for 6 months "exclusively".

I BF my dd for 6.5 months and after the first 6 weeks it was a struggle. And dare I say it after 3 months I wanted to stop because it was too restrictive (still every 1.5/2 hours or so) but I couldn't cos she wouldn't let me. Had she taken a bottle I would have done!! And (gasp) dare I say that i didn't really enjoy it either.

IF we have another lo I'll be trying again but rather than sitting at home crying on my own I'll be phoning NCT BF counsellors and going to the baby cafe to get some support. I hope I don't meet the OP there tho!

"i know it takes time and comittment and not having that all important wine drink. "

huh? Really - that's a bummer then - as I drank plenty of wine while BF'ing DS1!

I have read most of the thread so won't repeat what others have already said. I failed to breastfeed both of my dses for any length of time and opinions like the OP's make me very sad. Like lulumama, I also have dreams that I am breastfeeding a baby which I think indicates how deep-seated my guilt is.

FYI (to OP) a French friend tells me that when her grandmother couldn't breastfeed one of her babies and had to have the ends of her nipples cut off , her baby was fed on carrot juice. This was a common alternative to breastmilk in France at the time.

Sorry only read OP, but, wow, you sound like you could be the unsupportive, judgemental b'feeding counsellor that came to help me when trying to b'feed dd1 (don't worry, I'm not going to make excuses)and was probably one of the reasons (sorry 'excuses') why I failed so miserably.
If it takes 2 years to train as a b'feeding counsellor (I think thats right?) then surely part of that training should be in having some empathy when things are going wrong. Otherwise you might as well be a counsellor treating someone for depression, who just says, "Oh come on, buck up, we all have problems....".

I wrote a lenghty response to the op but decided we shouldn't have to justify ourselves to anyone and all I would like to add to the op poster is "lucky you"

To the OP - Congratulations - you are still BF-ing! Have a medal and a round of applause! Happy, now?

Personally, I think smug self satisfaction is a hideous trait.

I don't reckon that the op was inflammatory enough to set off the righteous ire that has been vented so far on this thread.

I do, and I'm an extended breastfeeder heading rapidly towards tandem feeding so in breastfeeding terms I'm fairly hardcore (although I don't feel it).

Sweeping statements like "the mums are just being selfish.", lobbed into the middle of a group of mothers many of whom couldn't breastfeed, deserve pretty much everything they get. Particularly if made by someone who claims to have thought that Mumsnet was a lovely supportive place for people to encourage one another.

aleciawalton - excellent post, well written.loved it. striaght talkin form the heart post -loved it

this is all so much blah blah blah really, the only important message is that Alecia takes Tiktok's advice and does some work on her attitude. if she doesn't, i can't see how she'll be any use as a breastfeeding peer supporter...
if mommygoose is a gynae she'll have had years in medical school perfecting her poker face (and those of us who've suffered at the hands of the medical profession know how easily that slips), but how long and intensive is the Breast Friend course?
is it possible that even in trying to do teh right thing by supporting bfing mothers, Alecia is also now suffering because of a lack of a rounded education in the subject?

ah yessss,QOQ. nights in front of telly with veeery sleepy bf'd baby and a half-bottle of wine. loverly.
Serioulsy though, thought this was fine in moderation? If not, bummer, like you say.

ooo lemonaid - I reckon you're about as hardcore as they come

NoNONo Error i mean jeMum fabby post

to clarify jemum - excellent post, well written.loved it. striaght talkin from the heart post -loved it

Aside: there are problems with formula over and above the clean water issue, even in this country.

Main point: re the OP, yes, there are people out there who've made 'bad' or 'selfish' decisions not to BF - it would be miraculous if infant feeding was the only parenting issue that no one ever made crappy decisions over. Obviously some people make crap/selfish decisions, it could be any of us, it could apply to any issue. But amongst parents who FF those people who've made poor or 'selfish' decisions are a vanishingly small minority compared to those who are f**ked over by lack of support and information, bad circumstances (including medical), bad luck etc. etc. Focusing only on the 'bad' decisions is either self-indulgence (in aid of getting that little glow of feeling better-by-comparison which we're all susceptible to at times) or must be due to ignorance. But the effect is only to put far more people off getting BF help and so make them more likely to stop sooner than they want to or would otherwise. And with BF a lot of people need help. Like someone else said, that's the sort of attitude that puts people off getting help because they're afraid the BF counsellors or whoever are secretly thinking they're awful.

Just to add to the voices of reassurance for anyone lurking who hasn't already BF - BF counsellors and supporters by and large really won't be looking to judge parents like that, as (particularly for counsellors with the full training) they really do know their stuff about BF, they've debriefed their own issues etc., and they see the big picture. It's really unusual for someone who's actually trained to be a supporter of some kind not to have learnt that focusing on the quality of parental decisions (as if that was the most significant thing - it's not!) is counter-productive and irrelevant to the real issues of support, information, and solving individual BF problems.

OP, I agree with TikTok, please do do some talking about this with your supervisor/trainer as it may help.