Derek Chauvin

[x2boys]

Derek Chauvin found guilty of all charges ,this is the right verdict imo,having watched the trial

Not 'guilt or innocence', sorry - guilty or not guilty..

@mathanxiety and @Juno231

Thanks for the explanations. I understand they all have different definitions. But they all sound quite similar, and they all involve the killing of one individual, so I was wondering how he can be guilty of all three charges. I suppose...an example here: Someone may commit grevious bodily harm (say stab someone) then as they fall, that person could hit their head and die. I think I'm right in saying that they wouldn't bring the GBH charge, but would instead bring a manslaughter/murder charge. Is that right? So it just seems odd that he has been convicted 3 times for one murder.

But as Juno said, if they give concurrent sentences, then I guess it doesn't matter in a sense.

It's not one murder.

Yes, only the one person died as a result of his actions.

But there were three separate offences involved.

[quote LeeMiller]@Veterinari I'm well aware of those cases, thanks.
I was quoting and replying to a PP's specific point about armed vs. non-amed policing, having lived in several EU countries where police are routinely armed - and where there is plenty of racism and police definitely aren't all cuddly - yet there are very few police killings. The culture of US policing specifically seems extremely militarized in a way that it isn't in the UK (and Europe), and that goes beyond cops simply having weapons, it's about their readiness to use them. Of course that isn't to say there aren't very real issues with UK policing, as highlighted in the cases you cite.[/quote]
Then I'm not sure using the UK is a good comparator. Our police don't use guns - maybe if we did we'd see similar issues to the US. You can't assume we'd be the same as Europe, there are too many variables

Bearing in mind the actions of some police officers during the pandemic here in the UK I am incredibly glad that police in this country are not generally armed.

@EdgeOfACoin

It's a disgrace. White people STORMED the capital with GUNS and all were arrested peacefully. None murdered or killed.

This isn't true. Ashli Babbitt was shot dead and the police officer responsible was cleared of her murder.

I in no way condone Babbitt's actions, and I make no comment on her death, but it is not true to say that no one was shot dead by the police at the Capitol riots.

I agree that had the rioters been black, there almost certainly would have been a lot more shootings.

And how far did she make it before she was shot? That's the point.

The issue in the US is not that the police are armed, it's that many members of the public are armed as well. I don't think there are any European countries that are comparable in that respect.

Even in European countries with relatively high levels of gun ownership like Finland and Switzerland, people don't generally carry guns while going about their daily business. Police in those countries don't have anywhere near as much reason to fear that they might be shot while doing their jobs as police do in the US.

It's not really that many members of the public are armed in the US.

It's racism.

Underlying the attitudes of the police is the ingrained racism that marred the entire history of the US from its founding. It's still alive and kicking, regardless of progress in certain constitutional areas. Scratch the surface and there it is.

Police brutality toward black people has been tolerated by the dominant wider society because deep down people believed it was warranted.

Police brutality toward black people has been tolerated by the dominant wider society because deep down people believed it was warranted.

Judging by a few of the comments on this thread, @mathanxiety, there are people here who think it's warranted too.

Fuckwits.

Breaking News - the DOJ are launching investigations into Minneapolis policing practices

@timeforanewnameagain

This is what really shook me. Honestly, in England I am 99% sure a bystander would have stepped in and shoved him off. Medics too, would have intervened. An off duty firefighter was there and asked for help - they would also have acted physically I'm sure of it.

As a woman who has been assaulted verbally and physically in the UK, no one has ever stepped in.

But people do gawk like it’s a free show.

The UK is no better.

@Roussette

Breaking News - the DOJ are launching investigations into Minneapolis policing practices

About time. They should investigate other police forces too .

This year a 55 yo black man suffering from a mental health crisis was tasered and then shot 3 times by a police officer. His family had called for mental health support, instead they got a guy who murdered their father on his own lawn. But apparently "there's nothing he could have done differently " said the police chief.

Plus ca change.

@mathanxiety

It's not really that many members of the public are armed in the US.

It's racism.

Underlying the attitudes of the police is the ingrained racism that marred the entire history of the US from its founding. It's still alive and kicking, regardless of progress in certain constitutional areas. Scratch the surface and there it is.

Police brutality toward black people has been tolerated by the dominant wider society because deep down people believed it was warranted.

This sums it up really well. The policing system in the USA has a very different history tied closely to issues of racial suppression. It takes a long time to change a deeply engrained culture.

[quote stackemhigh]@timeforanewnameagain

This is what really shook me. Honestly, in England I am 99% sure a bystander would have stepped in and shoved him off. Medics too, would have intervened. An off duty firefighter was there and asked for help - they would also have acted physically I'm sure of it.

As a woman who has been assaulted verbally and physically in the UK, no one has ever stepped in.

But people do gawk like it’s a free show.

The UK is no better.[/quote]
Yep no one stepped in for all the British Black people killed by police officers already mentioned on this thread

It takes a long time to change a deeply engrained culture.

And doesn't even start until enough people actually want to change it.

@Anniegetyourgun

It takes a long time to change a deeply engrained culture.

And doesn't even start until enough people actually want to change it.

Or acknowledge there is a problem and it does need changing.

Plenty of posters seem to find various and ridiculous mitigating factors in police shootings.

@Anniegetyourgun

It takes a long time to change a deeply engrained culture.

And doesn't even start until enough people actually want to change it.

i.imgur.com/JftvxgQ.jpg

Part of the issue is that white people in America do actually want equality but they don't recognise the inequality as existing. It is ingrained that the harsh treatment is deserved and don't recognise that it would be treated differently dependent on the colour of skin.

Officers in many states are taught to be less hesitant to use lethal force if they perceive threat. Black people are still predominantly constructed as a threat and scary.

It is so ingrained it is horrifying.

@Sendsystemsucks

Part of the issue is that white people in America do actually want equality but they don't recognise the inequality as existing. It is ingrained that the harsh treatment is deserved and don't recognise that it would be treated differently dependent on the colour of skin.

Officers in many states are taught to be less hesitant to use lethal force if they perceive threat. Black people are still predominantly constructed as a threat and scary.

It is so ingrained it is horrifying.

Insightful post. I think there is a lot of truth in this.

The idea that black males are a threat is absolutely ingrained in American culture but ours too, to a lesser extent. Our policing system, while it has it’s problems, does not have the same history.
Black males are killed and blamed for their deaths. Feeling threatened is deemed an acceptable defence.
A teenager strolling down the street in a Florida eating skittles was shot dead and no one held accountable as they felt threatened.
My U.K. city saw a case of white middle class teenagers let off for the stabbing of a classmate as they felt threatened. It was hard to really see that as the unarmed boy was ambushed and stabbed to death. Still, they felt threatened. We see all kinds of dissembling and have seen it from some contributors here. Who is actually feeling threatened?
Even tonight I have seen angry All Lives Matter responses to a New York BLM banner. What might be changing is that while some people clearly do not seem to realise how blatantly obvious their racist attitudes and assumptions are, these discussions are bringing their attitudes into the cold light of day.
This case was as clear as could be.

@Sendsystemsucks
This is so true - the irrational perceived threat by black men may explain why jurors can sympathise with the police in their unreasonable use of force.

The Daunte Wright case was so sad. He was handcuffed and in his car, surrounded by 3 officers and yet needed to be restrained but ended up dead. You hear the surprise when the officer realised she shot him and it made me think of how fearful she must have been of this monster and his superpower that she panicked and drew the wrong weapon.

I don't know if the point has been made about those bringing up George Floyd's character and/or previous conviction as justification for his murder that they are essentially saying they do not believe in the rule of law. The police in the USA and this country are not supposed to be Judge, jury and executioners so allowing them to act as such is undermining the whole judicial system. It's unnerving to consider how many serving officers probably do believe they are judges.

My apologies, I mentioned Floyd's past crimes up thread. This was not in relation to his murder, which had absolutely no justification at all. It was in relation to his posthumous elevation to folk hero. I understand that this thread is not the place for that discussion so I won't raise it again.

@MorrisZapp, I think any victim of crime is likely to be a flawed human being. People tend not to to focus on their flaws after their death, because that isn't really the point.

The thought of someone kneeling on a person's windpipe for 29 seconds is bad enough, and then you add the 9 minutes.

This was not doing what was required to arrest Mr Floyd, to restrain or subdue him, or to mitigate any perceived threat he posed to the personal safety of the officers or risk of escape.

For all the talk on this thread of guns in the USA - both armed police and criminals - this was not about that.

This was not about Mr Floyd's character or previous convictions.

This was about Chauvin's decision to dominate, abuse and dehumanise a black man and his belief that he could do that in plain sight as a police officer, with the support of his colleagues, and get away with it in a racist society and system and to the extent that he murdered him.

Thankfully Chauvin was proved wrong on this occasion and the reason for that starts firmly with the brave bystanders. But there are many more Chauvins out there as we know and many more victims of their racism, brutality and perceived omnipotence. There are many more colleagues who aid the Chauvins, abet them, stand by or turn a blind eye. The verdict is pivotal but so much still needs to change.

The way we saw Mr Floyd being publicly manhandled and murdered in the name of justice invoked the treatment of black people who were slaves. That was never right and it sure as hell is not right in 2021.