India Knight

[Bitofanexpert]

I take it mentioning her or her partner is banned.

Can I just say how utterly disgusted I am from learning about the actions of her partner on here- and nearly just as much from the lack of reporting of this by the press and on here too? Disgraceful. The man still has the gall to have a live Twitter account!!!

No. children being sexually abused for use online is not pornography

It’s child sexual abuse

A women being raped and the crime showed online is a woman being raped

Both of the above are crimes not pornography

I think he admitted it and that might be because if the material is on your computer then you are guilty because of the nature of the offence and it sounds like he originally said he had never seen the video but then changed his story, according to the BBC presumably when analysis of the computer showed he had accessed the material - or someone logging in as him. I have no idea. I just wanted to find out more facts. Anyway it does not matter. I am not his mother trying to stand up for him or anything.

I think he admitted it and that might be because if the material is on your computer then you are guilty because of the nature of the offence

Wow. You should think about changing that X in your username to a V, make it an anagram of Naive.

@Xenia

Thanks for the links. I am not always that happy to do google searches involving this topic for obvious reasons. It says there was a film on his computer of almost a minute long and secondly that his computer showed searches for young girls. I still would like more details. Eg I have often searched for images of young girls - I might be looking for a dress to buy for a 6 year old relative or something. I am assuming his search terms were things like n aked 5 year old girls in s exy poses or something along those lines?

He sounds an awful live in partner for anyone to have. Even the drunker fights in the commons or whatever it was which I had read about years ago made me wonder why anyone would want him as a partner. The teenage boy assault and promising never to drink again and now finding he did drink again - none of it makes him look at all like someone someone would want to spend their life with.

I don't quite follow all the points above. Rape is indeed rape and a film of it is presumably can be pornography either involving a child or a woman.

Hi Xenia, l think the case was cast iron, if the police are willing to take it as far as they did, they are sure they have all bases covered. This wasn't an accidental click of the mouse

He deliberately, knowing and wanting too, watched images of a child being raped.

India Knight and her cohort of female journalists who describe themselves as #Feminist, including Lauren Lavern, Catlin Moran who are continually supporting India Knight, just shows how rotten and transparent the media are in protecting themselves and each other.

Bloody hell I've just googled him.
Unbelievable. Never heard of him before.
And it's people like JK Rowling getting the death threats and being 'cancelled'??!!!
Also think if a woman had behaved the way he did even prior to these very serious sexual offences, there is no way she have any career left at all. Appears from Wikipedia that he still sits on committes?

This is utterly appalling. In my opinion, there is no punishment bad enough for someone like him. And she is a disgusting, mouthy hypocrite. I hope the 2 of them are called out on this and are vilified for the rest of their lives. Which still won't even come close to the pain of the victims.

@Arcadia

Bloody hell I've just googled him. Unbelievable. Never heard of him before. And it's people like JK Rowling getting the death threats and being 'cancelled'??!!! Also think if a woman had behaved the way he did even prior to these very serious sexual offences, there is no way she have any career left at all. Appears from Wikipedia that he still sits on committes?

And he feels that much shame that he still feels able to hold his head up and tweet about football.

@MrsMackesy I can't believe it.

He's utter scum. As for IK, she must be fucking desperate.

Imagine getting into bed every night with HIM

My skin is crawling just reading about him. I can't comprehend how anyone can stay in a relationship with a child abuser or a rapist. He should have been locked up for a long time. It just shows how far reaching white male privilege really is.

Yes, l'm with all of you posters.

Mumsnet has no reason to "delete" this thread. Unless there is something that should not be said or is libelous.

And there is not.

As it is on public record that the man she is living with is guilty of viewing child rape online.

He was also found guilty of assaulting a 14 year old boy.

She still supports him.

There is nothing factually wrong in saying that.
But it's awful that she does.

Xenia all you need to Google is 'Eric Joyce Guardian 7 August 2020'. Or the Daily Mail of the same date. Neither of these articles are behind a paywall and set out the facts.

I'm all for helping to articulate the nuances and paculiarities of the law Xenia but in this instance I think we be confident that if this was a case of an innocent man entrapped by a "strict liability" offence that the CPS would be unlikely to spend resources pursuing it and that IK would be shouting about the injustice of it all from the roof tops.

I have just read the Julie Burchill article. I feel physically quite sick.

Thanks for the link. He sounds pretty rotten although it sounds like his offence here was clicking on a spam email
"
She explained that Joyce, who appeared at court in person, “says he accesses it via an email which he says was a spam email”. The judge added: “At the time he was drinking heavily and he has now undergone work with the Lucy Faithfull Foundation and a psychotherapist.”..."

@Xenia

Thanks for the links. I am not always that happy to do google searches involving this topic for obvious reasons. It says there was a film on his computer of almost a minute long and secondly that his computer showed searches for young girls. I still would like more details. Eg I have often searched for images of young girls - I might be looking for a dress to buy for a 6 year old relative or something. I am assuming his search terms were things like n aked 5 year old girls in s exy poses or something along those lines?

He sounds an awful live in partner for anyone to have. Even the drunker fights in the commons or whatever it was which I had read about years ago made me wonder why anyone would want him as a partner. The teenage boy assault and promising never to drink again and now finding he did drink again - none of it makes him look at all like someone someone would want to spend their life with.

I don't quite follow all the points above. Rape is indeed rape and a film of it is presumably can be pornography either involving a child or a woman.

All you had to google was his name. Literally, just Eric Joyce.

I find your comment very disingenuous, like you're further trying to make the point that this happens/happened by accident.

Judge Mr Justice Edis, sentencing the former shadow minister on Friday, said: 'You have pleaded guilty to an offence which involves the possession of a category A film of a little less than a minute's duration.
'That film showed the penetrative sexual abuse of very young children.

Michael Procter, prosecuting, said police seized a number of computer devices and hard drives from Joyce's address in Worlingworth in November 2018 after receiving intelligence.
He said the movie file was later found on an Apple Macbook Air laptop.
In police interview, Mr Procter said Joyce said he 'lived at that address with his partner, India Knight', that the Macbook Air device was his and 'he owned it from new'.
He said Joyce used software which hid internet activity and claimed in his first police interview that 'he had never seen child abuse material'.
In a second police interview, following analysis of Joyce's computer, Mr Procter said: 'He told police in relation to his first interview that some of it wasn't true.
'He had seen a mixture of images.'
He continued: 'He told the police that the circumstances in which he had come into possession of the category A movie was when he had been on a Russian or Ukrainian website.
'He received spam emails, he received a link; he said that the majority of it was legal but it was clear to him some of it wasn't.
'He also told police he was intoxicated when he was involved in this activity.
'He couldn't remember looking for that kind of material.'
Joyce told police 'there was nobody else that was responsible', Mr Procter said, adding: 'He told police he was not sexually attracted to children and since his arrest he had sought help.'
Mr Procter said there was evidence of searches 'for material for five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10-year-old girls'.
'There's reference to titles which the Crown suggest are indicative of category A movies - 'two men rape girl',' he said.

“Spam email”

Yeah I think you’re just being wilfully obtuse Xenia.

[quote Alsohuman]@Xenia, he’s been tried and convicted, surely that should be enough for anyone? I’m finding your posts quite disturbing, they look horribly like attempts to excuse him. I’m sorry if I’ve got that wrong but that’s my perception.[/quote]
It is shameful and embarrassing disinguity. Xenia is twisting herself into knots in order to stake a claim to a spurious moral high ground whereupon one must not ‘judge’ someone who pleaded guilty, was judged in court, and was found guilty of possession of images of child sexual abuse.

There's always some reason these disgusting men 'accidentally' stumble on Class A abuse images, or some reason why it isn't their fault. Depressingly, there's always people willing to defend these men too.

Considering these predators claim stumbling across abuse images is such an easy woopsie moment, it's a miracle that most of society manage to navigate the internet without viewing images of child abuse.

There's always some reason these disgusting men 'accidentally' stumble on Class A abuse images, or some reason why it isn't their fault. Depressingly, there's always people willing to defend these men too.

Indeed, there’s a questionable exercise in minimisation occurring on this very thread.

I remember a TV drama many years ago where the wife stayed with the husband and believed his accidental downloading bullshit.
Discussing it with friends and family, I was a amazed and disgusted that some of them felt it was harsh punishment for "just looking at pictures". I'd have hoped people are now more educated and aware of the full nature of these photos and videos.

Questionable indeed.

If you took the computers of a million citizens at random, most of them will not have a history of viewing child abuse content online. Even if something most unfortunate happens and some content did get stumbled upon, surely it would be a single time and would have been reported to the police. Who accidentally has a pattern of viewing this material?

The real question that troubles me at the moment is why so many adults on here seem unusually keen to erode safeguarding, whilst minimising the actions of harmful adults.

I cannot believe this! The lack of coverage. Yes, he is the abuser, but to stand by him, to defend him. She isn't some powerless woman with no friends or family, or money who find themselves trapped, she could and should have left him.
I find it disturbing. Really disturbing. I am sharing with friends and family and asking them to consider cancelling their Times whilst they employ a child abuse apologist.
Some things are plain wrong. This is one of them.
It may be a year on, but those kids will have a lifetime of pain. How dare they tweet and act as if theyre entitled to behave and live their lives as if its just nothing. I am so angered by this.

She is protected by the press because of who her stepfather is, as i posted on another thread many years ago i worked as her nanny and was left stranded with my 5 year old daughter at her stepfather's estate in the south of France, because i dared complain about working around the clock and caring for her friend's baby as well as hers which was not agreed, she refused to give me my air ticket or pay me, my daughter was terrified and we were stuck in a small staff annexe for 3 days trying to contact the British embassy to help us, luckily one of my friends got me a ticket and the chauffer working there felt sorry for us and took us to the airport as we were miles from the nearest town, will never forget her cruelty towards us, and yes i contacted the press about it i was so angry for my daughter going through that, they were going to print the story then it was stopped at the last minute.

I'm curious why you are so keen to downplay this Xenia?

I get that it can be important to challenge assumptions. But you are really trying yourself in knots over this one.