To think most parents don't really give a crap about this...

[reaching0ut]

....as long as their kid isn't the one being bullied or ostracised? I think at some point when everything is rosy many parents profess to feel this way, but actually they're totally oblivious or thanking their lucky stars that it's not their child coming home in tears, not sleeping, eating and feeling generally worthless and hopeless.

YANBU Both of my children are academically gifted. Both of my children are autistic. And both of my children are/were extremely lonely at school and other parents added to this. More so for my now adult daughter who had to endure all of her class talking about whole class parties that she was never invited to. The only parties she ever attended were her own. It breaks my heart whenever I go to the school and see all the kids happily running around and playing together, and then spot my DS all by himself. Always.

I should add, I would trade my son's academic giftedness for being able to make friends in a heartbeat.

That was me a bit as well random

All my friends at high school were in different forms. I loved my little group of "rejects" . I mean they were actually my friends. Proper friends. And as we had eachother we didn't need the teachers pets earning themselves house points pretending to be our friends even though we knew no one would touch us with a barge pole if they didn't think they'd get something out of it. It was so nice to finally have a group where you could be alone sometimes and no one got the hump. And we could all trust eachother with anything and everything. It was real. Not something forced upon us so everyone ekse could feel.better about themselves

The ones that don't care will dress up that selfishness or exclusiveness or (sometimes) bullying as teaching their DC some other life lesson.

I've had to step in with the school for all three of my children when they've suffered bullying.

I don't think it's bullying being discussed here - though social excvlusion can be part of bullying -I think here it's more going out your way to include others - which is different and can have it's place in life and be a good skill to cultivate but it can have it's downside.

I also would say both being a kind and good person and lots of knowledge are both of value. Of course I give a crap about the people my children are turning into. Passing tests can get you places but that’s not most of life.

However school is a lot about passing tests. Seeing someone alone in cafeteria and sitting next to them might be the right thing. If only it were so simple.

I hate these kind of statements. It's not as though it has to be one or the other. My kid is often the lonely one. He is also bright. We spend a lot more time discussing social stuff and rights and wrongs because I can't really teach him much about academics.

I expect my kid to be kind to others but I would not expect him to go out of his way to befriend someone he didn't particularly get on with. For example at my son's martial arts group there is an older child with a learning disability who struggles to stay on task. My son understands that I want him to pair up with this lad sometimes for partner work, but I don't expect him to do so every week. This does not affect his academic ability!

@AOWNNs2

Around us, those who've made it and got the best careers are also those with the best social skills. Indeed that's why private schools place such a huge emphasis on them. It's really not that hard to sort out academics - most kids who are smart enough pick them up and if not parents can just get them a tutor. However, social skills, the ability to put everyone at ease, being inclusive but not at the expense of your own needs/agenda, ability to get on with everyone and make everyone feel good is invaluable.

I don't agree with this. What I've seen in all the companies I've worked for is the Peter Principle - people are promoted to managerial positions based on their technical skills and then are terrible managers because they don't have the social/people skills. But they still reach those high positions with the high salaries, and they aren't generally demoted.

Being kind is one thing, but we shouldn’t expect our children to do more than what we do ourselves.
Inviting everybody to a birthday party instead of excluding a small number - yes. Inviting someone sitting alone to join our table for lunch - yes.
Playing with children they have nothing in common with instead of their own friends - I wouldn’t do that myself TBH.

As PP have said, this also has nothing to do with academic achievement. What makes you think that parents who don’t push their children academically do push them to be kind? And vice versa?

I was always on my own in school. As a result I've always tried to get my children to look out for people on their own etc, but as a few people above say there's times you do this and you're literally just forcing two people who aren't similar together and potentially stopping the other child from naturally developing friendships. Add to this the fact that I'm not great socially and they have possibly inherited this, there's a chance I've bungled it all up! But yes, all equal, I've two that have the potential to be very high achievers academically and two who are the sociable two. They'll all find their place and I'll be equally proud. As long as they're happy and good to others and try their best

It’s not a choice, you can push for both

Both are very important

@FatCatThinCat - I hear you.

DS got invited to whole class parties for the first year or two but it was a mixed blessing because he found them totally overwhelming. Then the trend was for smaller parties which of course he never got invited to.

Then there was the time that DS thought he had been invited to a party but the kid in question was having him on. No amount of reasoning would dissuade DS - he was waiting on the doorstep expecting to be picked up! Heartbreaking. Social exclusion is a particularly effective form of bullying, IMO.

@HeyDemonsItsYaGirl yes, tech skills will get you into middle management but that's all. then again tech skills are not hard to get. however, people with tech skills but without social skills wont get into senior management where the real money is made.

honestly, if people are that obsessed about kids getting into middle management at the expense of them being a good human being - get them to do math a level, send them to study engineering and you get a mid-level manager in a tech company. but for real money, you either need to be gifted (i.e. 0.1% of population - that cant be taught) or good with people.

They're definitely not mutually exclusive. I am always encouraging kindness in my 2.

It's very important to me that my child is kind to other people. It's always been the highlight of any feedback at school when I hear something that shows this. I don't think I'm in a minority.

It's an annoying, preachy social media sticker. For that alone it ought to be ignored.

Logically though there is some truth to it. There's plenty of thinking in the workplace that success is less about IQ and more interpersonal skills. Personally I think you need both. I think it's best to have a base level of intelligence and competence plus a strong moral compass and good leadership skills, which should include caring about the people in your team and supporting them to achieve.

The idea that it's either or is facile nonsense.

I tend to view binaries and black and white scenarios and choices with some scepticism. I like to think of our choices, approaches and identities as all being on spectrums of sorts. Binaries rarely feel useful or accurate.

Both matter, and they're not mutually exclusive.

Equally, as a teacher I've got a quiet but niggling concern that there's an increasing trend for confusing 'being a good friend' with 'being a receptacle for someone else's emotional burdens', where teens end up taking other people's issues on their shoulders when they haven't got the maturity or life experience to handle it. People can be kind and friendly, without being taught from a young age to have their own boundaries eroded in the name of being 'kind'. Anecdotally, this responsibility for other children's feelings seems to disproportionately be placed on girls.

Both important, but as pp have explained, so are boundaries. I will absolutely not tolerate bullying/ ganging up and parties were always "all the girls, all the boys or less than half the class" but I'm not sure its sensible to encourage children to actively seek out the company of people they don't want to spend time with. I don't.

All I care about is that my children and kind, nice people and that they try hard at everything they do. Being academically gifted isn't a priority of mine for my children.

We live in a world that values academic skills over every other skill

Ha! I wish. We live in a world where idiots who can't spell coffee get voted in as President of the USA and where no-one trusts experts and instead relies on FB groups for their info. We live in a world where academic achievement is not rewarded and value is placed on celebrity and followers.

If academic skill was prized above all others then professors would be paid more than footballers. Instead our society lauds the uneducated and uninformed and pays milions to pop singers and instagram influencers.

Laughable to suggest academics are what matter to people.

Im confused by this

I was horrifically bullied in school (physically so bad I ended up in hospital multiple times from attacks) and the academically gifted children were NOT the problem, they where often the either the nice ones or the ones that caused no issue and usually kept their heads down.

I agree @landofgiants, it’s the cruellest

One of DS2’s friends has Aspergers and struggles socially

The “popular kids” invite him and befriend him until he believes he’s “in with them”, then they cruelly dump him and laugh at him. Over and over.

This is not young kids, this is y11

DS went over to the “cool kids” and told them they were assholes and bullies, and also talked to the tutor (who said she could not do anything... )

That was a day I was very proud of DS though

These kids were so calculating and cruel

My cousin was often alone at school. I was at the same school, so clearly encouraged to include her.

Which I did.... but not that much as she was nasty to my friends and often went out of her way to embarrass me.

Part of the reason she was alone was her own behaviour - she just wasn't that nice to hang out with. I don't know if anyone ever addressed that with her, but I suspect it would have been more helpful than making me include her artificially.

(She's much better now! We still don't spend time together but I no longer dread seeing her).

But the entertainment industry has always been the outlier (and I count influencers, footballers and Trump in that).

In society generally, there is a correlation between academic achievement and income.

In society generally, there is a correlation between academic achievement and income

Are you sure about that? Because I think you'll find an awful lot of rich people aren't dripping in advanced degrees.