My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (Part 2)

[workworkworkugh]

Just opening a new thread as I believe the other one is getting full.
Will try and link the old one

OP, I don't mean to talk worst case scenario but there are too many cases similar to yours that ended in murder. I couldn't not say anything. Whatever it takes, get your boy away from her. I wish you all the best x

[quote Alfiemoon1]@HollowTalk thankfully she is still doing her university course and we know which town she is in just not the address. But yes it’s very worrying she’s having to work more hours in her part time job as he doesn’t work or study so she’s obviously financing him. Work is the only time she is apart from him as she isn’t allowed to see friends without him so she doesn’t have many friends left now as they don’t like him and don’t want him tagging along all the time[/quote]
Why have I seen so many threads lately which mention women in their late teens becoming enamoured with useless layabouts who are often more than a few years older? It's such a malignant trend.

Yep same here op we have spoken to dd so have other relatives and her friends and we paid for private counselling we all said the same it’s an unhealthy relationship and his behaviour is controlling.
After a night of his batshit behaviour where he was messaging me demanding photo proof that I wasn’t holding her hostage in the house- she had worked all day it was cold and icy so rather than pick him up and drive back to university she stayed at her family home and fell asleep hence why she wasn’t replying to his calls she ended it and blocked him all the friends she had lost touch with because of him rallied round her it lasted 3 days then she was back to excusing his behaviour. He threatens to kill himself if I leave because he loves me so much. Couples should want to spend time together hence the fact why she can’t see her friends independently. Nobody can reason with her and the more we try the closer they get. It’s them and there true love against the world lol. Hopefully she will see sense soon as will your ds it’s bloody awful watching them going through this and not being able to resolve it at least your ds is younger and living at home so you can implement some boundaries

@MrsMiddleMother

Okay this is getting ridiculous now! You're the parent. Take his phone off him, change schools you pay for it for god sake. Ban him from seeing her. His girlfriend threatened to murder his mother and he still wants to be with her?? He's 16, not exactly a kid. I'd say if he sees her again he would no longer be staying in my house.

This - but for me I wouldn’t add the ultimatum to kick him out.

I’d say ‘you cannot see her, this is unhealthy and has crossed a line, if not for you, but for me and my safety’ - then take away phone, everything.

He’s 16 but he needs you to be strong, he’s still a child, your child, under your roof so you have way, way more influence than you think.

If you give him any signs that ‘it is OK’ to have any contact - then he will get the very confusing and frankly very unsafe message that despite a death threat, a relationship with her is OK.

This is hugely bad for him to think. You are the person on this earth who can show him it is not OK to carry on so relationship. He has no one else who will tell him this.

I do find the comments that ‘if you try and stop him it will get worse’ as naive and alarming. Of

Hi Workworkworkugh,

* Please read *

I am sorry that you are going through this 💐 What a nightmare for you all. I have read through the posts. A lot of good advice has been suggested. I have been thinking about this and how I would handle it should I be in this situation. An alcoholic won’t accept help unless they believe they have a problem. No amount of telling them, nagging etc will help. I’m not saying your son is an alcoholic just using it as an example. This approach isn’t working so I would change tact..... I think deep down your son knows it’s just hard to accept it. He has family on one side and the girlfriend on the other. His head is probably spinning with it all.
I don’t think you will get help from anyone else police, GP or her parents unless of course he says he wants it. I think she isn’t well but that’s not your issue here. I think your son said he wanted you all to meet up at the weekend? If not suggest it with her parents there too. Then this is where you change. It’s going to be hard and you may want to dig your nails into your hand!! Basically what I think you should do is give your approval for their relationship (you don’t of course but you want your son back) Say whatever you need to make them believe that you are on their side. Explain that she is welcome at your house anytime. Hear me out here!! It will hurt inside but I’m sure it will work. She will think she has ‘won’ for now... Then stand back and let them get on with it. She will trip up very soon. If you hear a call etc that isn’t nice. Say nothing to your son. Just go to him later and give him a hug and say I’m here if you need him. Leave it at that. Don’t get involved. He will realise that home is a safe space and he doesn’t get nagged there. Eventually I feel that he will see her for what she is. What you don’t want is for him to leave home and go to live at hers.
Remember you keep your friends close but your enemies closer....
Good luck 💐 ☘️

We also have the police involved because I have his equally batshit crazy mother messaging me threatening me not sure of what it’s just vile abuse and I have been warned previously not to contact her precious son who she kicked out at 16 and has only just got back in touch with 2 years ago as it suits her for childcare of her younger children. I’ve blocked him months ago after he accused me of holding her hostage in our home so I presume as they are joined at the hip I can’t privately message my daughter now without being threatened not that I particularly even mention him but have discussed things with her that he has either posted or done that I think was wrong or insensitive mainly revolving around dd horse at the moment

Here's what I think...

The girl has mental health problems. BUT she and her family are not acknowledging this. However, her (and their) behaviour is now causing serious upset to your family. You cannot control this girl's behaviour and, because of your son's age, you are quite limited in how much you can control his. But you CAN control yours.

I think your son needs independent support but you cannot enforce this, only encourage. However, you can get independent support for yourself. You are suffering and you CAN get help with that. I support your contact with the police and the school, but I'm not convinced that ultimately they will be able to resolve this, I think you need someone wise to talk to and who can advise on managing family harm, abuse, police interactions etc. At the very least you'll have someone to lean on and in fact you may be able to tap into a wealth of knowledge. Places like Women's Refuge often run support services for families affected by abusive and controlling behaviour.

All the best.

Also, when my 16yo had a very toxic friendship, I tried to control her interactions. Massive fail, big upset, she moved out argh. I got support for myself which helped me to offload and learn ways to improve communication with her. I did lean on police and lawyers and the school, all of whom were FANTASTIC, but ultimately it was the support I had for myself which gave me the confidence to stand back and wait for my daughter to see sense, to be calm and consistent with her about what I would/wouldn't tolerate, that made the difference. She came home and ditched the friend. Look it was all very stressful at the time but we got through and you will too. x

@MrsT777 I really don’t think giving her blessing for the relationship is a good idea, She will trip up very soon she’s already asked him to kill his own mother, I’m not sure how worse it could get!

It’s strange but I have a feeling perhaps a little like the OP is feeling about her son - the son is feeling he can’t end it - the OP is feeling like she can’t be firmer about saying that he should not see her - and I’m feeling from a distance please OP tell him no way.

You don’t have to physically force him. You don’t have to threaten to kick him out. You just have to calmly but firmly say this is so serious, that this ends now. That’s it. No discussion, just calm, firm, strong.

If he starts to rail, just repeat, very calmly, very firmly ‘this ends now’. If he still rails, suggest that we all have a week with him respecting the no contact, and then talk again. Who pays for his phone? You, you can take it. Who pays for the internet? You. What if he leaves the house? You ask him very calmly not to go. If he does, you call the police to say he’s left, they probably won’t do anything, he’ll eventually come back.

But when he does, he will have this strong voice in his head that is saying ‘end it now, it’s not healthy’ and eventually that will make a difference. It is much, much better than his any meeting up with parents and you, or round and round discussions. That is all feeding into the drama and abusive which feeds on attention.

At 16 I fell for a guy of 20, he wasn't a bad guy just a bit immature really but his brothers had been in trouble with the law, one had left the country to avoid arrest and his parents were afraid he'd go the same way, my parents objected to me seeing him so I sneaked out on night and went to stay with him and his parents who welcomed me with open arms, told me I could stay with them and continue in school, showed me the cottage they used to live in (they'd built a new house beside it) and suggested we got married and moved in there. Thankfully I seen sense and went home, I look back now 34 years later and realise they wanted him settled and occupied so he would behave and stay on the straight and narrow, I believe your sons girlfriends parents are doing the same unfortunately.

I thought her dad was really reasonable after the post you put when your son had concussion i.can't believe at her age she would blatantly be so rude to you! You honestly just need to stop. I think, it's been going on for so long, and like you said, he can move out soon legally so just keep quiet and don't do anything else for him I guess he has to learn for himself. literally, don't top up his lunches or give him money. But you are absolutely right that if it was the other way around and he treated her like that, with the threatening texts, something would be done.

I agree with @MrsT777,, she put it a lot better than me x

this is a really outrageous suggestion, and I promise I'm not drunk while thinking this up, but do you have funds to engage a suitably aged, attractive young man, perhaps training to be an up and coming actor (or frankly speaking, a male escort) who would be prepared to be paid to bump into the girl by chance and try and woo her?

Would she dump your son on a more permanent basis if she was getting other attention? Give you enough time to change his schools, mobile number and the like and potentially fuel enough anger in him to wake up and realise what type of person she is?

All the best op

@expat101 ew! I know what you're saying, but can't we get a lovely girl to take him away, he's the one being abused!. This girl makes me so cross! I think you have been very restrained OP after that disgusting text! I don't get why it's different for boys and girls. Show all the texts, if nothing else, would your son accept her getting help as a reason for not seeing each other?

@expat101

this is a really outrageous suggestion, and I promise I'm not drunk while thinking this up, but do you have funds to engage a suitably aged, attractive young man, perhaps training to be an up and coming actor (or frankly speaking, a male escort) who would be prepared to be paid to bump into the girl by chance and try and woo her?

Would she dump your son on a more permanent basis if she was getting other attention? Give you enough time to change his schools, mobile number and the like and potentially fuel enough anger in him to wake up and realise what type of person she is?

This can't be serious?

@expat101

this is a really outrageous suggestion, and I promise I'm not drunk while thinking this up, but do you have funds to engage a suitably aged, attractive young man, perhaps training to be an up and coming actor (or frankly speaking, a male escort) who would be prepared to be paid to bump into the girl by chance and try and woo her?

Would she dump your son on a more permanent basis if she was getting other attention? Give you enough time to change his schools, mobile number and the like and potentially fuel enough anger in him to wake up and realise what type of person she is?

Reverse the sexes. "Employ a model / escort / prostitute to distracted the bloke from the person his own age."

Absolutely grim. Grim as fuck.

[quote MinnieJackson]@expat101 ew! I know what you're saying, but can't we get a lovely girl to take him away, he's the one being abused!. This girl makes me so cross! I think you have been very restrained OP after that disgusting text! I don't get why it's different for boys and girls. Show all the texts, if nothing else, would your son accept her getting help as a reason for not seeing each other?[/quote]
He doesn't have to have sex with her, just court and flatter her for a while... divert her attention, she seems to have far too much time on her hands and its all focused around OP's son.

(There is a proper name for male escorts who attend as plus 1's, but I can't think of it now. That sort of thing.)

I have a cousin in a relationship like this. I’ve seen a few PPs mention they have the same scenario in their families too. I feel like we need a support thread for relatives! It’s very difficult. Someone else brings this abusive person into your family and you have no choice but to be caught in the crossfire and it’s awful to watch them isolated and constantly trying to placate this unpleaseable person. OP I don’t know what to suggest as we are yet to have found anything that works for C. I used to be very close to C but hardly see him at all now because he’s not allowed to see people and also his partner rages not only at him but also at those around him and you end up on egg shells all the time and being the subject of abuse yourself (sounds like your already the subject of a smear campaign OP!). A psychologist told me C’s partner likely has a personality disorder. Would your DS suggest to his GF that she needs help and support her to get it? C’s partner wouldn’t even entertain the idea. Nor would C leave so we just try to protect ourselves from the crossfire (low contact isn’t hard when someone’s not allowed friends or family!). I’m about to look up BPD myself as it may help us know how better to manage with C. I’ll let you know if I find any great revelations that might help you as well as me OP!

Your poor DS. I think you should get a restraining order against her yourself, being in court might be a wake up call!

I am really hoping there will be a light at the end of this tunnel for you OP.

Her parents are absolutely beyond useless and have created a monster and danger to society. Minimising her insanely abusive and toxic behaviour for an easy life can lead to seriously horrendous ramifications. There are plenty of examples and parallels where sociopaths have bullied and terrorised their partners into committing terrible crimes. Or she might incite someone else to get ultra-violent to her partners and others if she doesn’t get her way.

My DC aren’t teenagers yet so I have no idea how we would cope but we had a horrendous experience with our DD when she was about 5 years old. She is very loving and super loyal and was befriended by another 5-year old girl living next door and her slightly older sister. I noticed that DD was getting a bit withdrawn but she would not tell us why. Unbeknownst to us, she was being emotionally bullied and stuck in a very toxic relationship with this other girl and her sibling who continually demanded that DD should prove her loyalty and friendship. DD is quite sensitive underneath her bubbly exterior and very nurturing, so, unfortunately, could be manipulated by this toxic pair. DD knew very well about certain plants in a park next to our former home being poisonous and is pretty intelligent. When we let DD play next door with this girl, we were led to believe that the mother was supervising, as we were when she came over to ours. But we later found out that they let them and her 8-year old sister go off to the park by themselves and that they had systematically bullied and pushed DD to eat these poisonous berries to prove her loyalty. Sadly, after weeks of this, DD was feeling so low and backed into a corner, she eventually ate the berries, resulting in her becoming extremely sick. These girls initially tried to stop her from leaving and seeking help but luckily, a woman spotted DD being sick and intervened. Fortunately, she received immediate emergency care and threw up most of the berries in time. We confronted the girls with their parents who completely minimised the incidence, despite the girls even admitting they wanted to see what would happen and if DD might die. We moved within weeks, as we really did not want our DD to be anywhere near these two. In hindsight, I wonder if maybe we should have escalated the whole thing and actually alerted the police to have some sort of record of it but our main focus at the time was to get our DD away from them. It's easy to tell others what to do but when you are dealing with those that have zero empathy or morals and your kids are in danger from them, it is really terrifying.

AnotherKrampus that is horrendous your poor daughter! Is she ok now? That must have been so traumatic for her.

@IHateCoronavirus Thank you for your concern. She is fine now as that was over 4 years ago. It was really chilling to see that these girls relentlessly pushed her into it and had no conscience. They were really quite sadistic, which is shocking at their age. The parents totally downplayed it and did not seem to even realise the seriousness of it. They will have a very rude awakening when those girls get older, setting no boundaries nor any discipline. DD was in bits after and kept telling me that she knew it was dangerous but felt unable to stop it. I was heartbroken that she was too trapped by their constant badgering and bullying to tell us. They did not threaten her with violence but quite used insidious, persistent emotional abuse. We had long chats since that she needed to place her own health, safety and general well being above others, as she likes to nurture and please others. We should have probably alerted someone, perhaps social services but we thought it was even more important for DD to just get away from there, as they were right next door.

Her parents could see some of her behaviour is not right but seem hellbent on keeping them together, beats me why

Because if your son is babysitting and placating their fucking nightmare of a daughter then they don’t have to.