My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (Part 2)

[workworkworkugh]

Just opening a new thread as I believe the other one is getting full.
Will try and link the old one

OP I really don’t understand why you are letting them see each other! They need to be kept apart! Everytime he goes back he has no idea. Or he HAS to attend counselling that would be the only way and supervised visits.

DS is a great catch for this dreadful daughter. Whatever happens, if she gets pregnant, or even if the daughter finds a new bf, they know the DS will behave honourably. Win win for the parents of the dreadful daughter.
Why would they try to end it?
I'm not sure how much your husband is involved. It does sound as if it's a battle between OP and the gf. I would think perhaps a supportive male teacher or his DF would have more influence on your son.
Very difficult for your son, no doubt she would threaten suicide if he says he wants to finish.
I suggest that OP and the rest of the family continue with a 'happy' 'normal' family life and that moods and emotions around the DS and the gf are hidden and the son is left to make his own decisions. In the hope that he sees what he is missing. So that he is not choosing between stress and pressure with the gf and similar at home, though of course his home life could be fine, it just sounds as if the relationship is causing great strain there too.

If his friends want to see him this weekend but he is fobbing them off can you throw a BBQ at your house and invite them all? He'll feel obligated to see them if they're coming to his house, surely! And it will flush out yet more bad behaviour from her if she kicks off. If he's sitting at her house knowing all his mates are waiting for him at yours he'll know it's not right.

He seems to be able to stand up to her when she tells a lie and there are adults in the room to hear it, so he can't be gaslit into thinking it's the truth. Or where his sport and mates are concerned, eg she hasn't managed to get him to quit his sport so that has given him a bit of external support to stand up to her.

Oh god, I've had another thought - make sure your DS doesn't send her any dodgy pics over social media - she can hold those over his head as well.

Honestly, there seem to be so many more of these sociopathic types coming out of the woodwork now - I wonder if the access to SM actually increases their exposure?

@AnotherKrampus - your poor daughter! Thank goodness for that lady in the park, I dread to think!

There is a website here specifically for teens to help them recognise the differences between loving and controlling relationships.

Controlling relationships follow patterns. Recognising these can often lead to a lighbulb realisation.

There is also advice for friends (&family) how best to support and how/why some reactions will make it harder for the person being controlled to realise what is happening and navigate their way out.

loverespect.co.uk/advice/red-flags/

I cannot believe someone has suggested you take this girl under your wing. Boundaries boundaries boundaries.

As for your ds’s friends, can they just come over if he’s refusing to go out with them? Perhaps he’s embarrassed? Or maybe she’s forbidden him from seeing them? If you can all act as a support network, perhaps it will help him to pull away.

'this is a really outrageous suggestion, and I promise I'm not drunk while thinking this up, but do you have funds to engage a suitably aged, attractive young man, perhaps training to be an up and coming actor (or frankly speaking, a male escort) who would be prepared to be paid to bump into the girl by chance and try and woo her?'

what an utterly bizarre suggestion!

I agree with PP.

Take away his phone, turn off Internet move, move his school, even move house or send him away if you can.

This has the potential of ruining his and your families lives.

@Daisydrum

OP I really don’t understand why you are letting them see each other! They need to be kept apart! Everytime he goes back he has no idea. Or he HAS to attend counselling that would be the only way and supervised visits.

He doesn't want to see a counsellor and PHYSICALLY forcing him to is not the answer.

I'm sorry you are going through this experience.

I wonder if you could maybe find an ex partner of your DS's girlfriend via facebook? I'm sure this isn't the first time she's behaved like this and it may help as a warning to your son, may add a bit of perspective and an easier person to relate to?

I do think you should try and get his friends over, regardless of his say-so - once they're over, he's going to find it hard to totally ignore them! Maybe get 2 or 3 at once?

I feel like there's literally nothing more we can do.
Everyone is saying we should take his phone off him, basically lock him inside the house, that sounds great in theory but just doesn't work.
We can't exactly uproot our whole lives and affect the lives of our other children to move away, which he wouldn't come anyway and doesn't have to as he is 16.

I think I'm giving up.
We had a chat before and he did a quiz with me about abusive relationships where he scored a 60+ that wasn't enough to convince him, we talked about if I weren't with his dad and I had a boyfriend that did those things to me and he admitted he would hate it and think it was shit, we talked about if his friends were in a relationship like his and he admitted it wouldn't be good, but then turns around and says that it's all just my opinion and he doesn't want to hear it!

Nothing is getting through to him, he has his eyes on the prize and that is apparently seeing her as soon as he can get to her.

I asked what his boundaries are, what is his limit, he couldn't answer, I gave him some suggestions but he wasn't sure. I mean if she can tell him to kill me and that doesn't end the relationship then he clearly has no limit at all!

My DH is around and involved, he just internalises a lot and often doesn't say the right things which can make a situation worse and DS and I have always been closer and that's why I've mainly taken the lead in a sense with this.
DH is definitely involved in all decisions and conversations.
He's getting more and more furious by the day and I can see he's about to flip and go nuclear on the whole thing, he's worried for my mental health and wants me to get police involved officially to, and I quote, "let the little bitch know she can't get away with this", he definitely has a way with words 🙊

I'm exhausted and our poor other kids are missing out on their mum while my mental capacity is taken up with all of this.

I am so sorry you are going through this OP. I am beyond astonished that the police aren't taking her incitement to murder more seriously.

There have been many cases where teenage girls have persuaded other teens to murder parents they believed were keeping them apart. In most of these cases they have not considered how or if they would get away with the crime, they have not planned anything beyond eliminating the barrier to their relationship. Often other family members are murdered as well.

Please look at these cases and then go to the police and insist they do their job.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker%E2%80%93Hulme_murder_case
murderpedia.org/female.C/c/caffey-erin.htm
www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1125805/britains-youngest-double-murderers-who-butchered-liz-edwards-and-her-daughter-in-spalding-are-named-after-high-court-ruling/

I think it's particularly worrying that your son's girlfriend was bold enough to tell you why she has a problem with you to your face and in front of her parents. This suggests that she actually believes she is totally reasonable. There is no telling what someone this deluded might do.

It's a real red flag that even when she is telling him to kill you, your son still can't see her for what she is.

Please, please take steps to protect yourself and your family, get a panic button installed and carry a rape alarm in your hand when you are out and about.

I'm not trying to scare you, but every time you post, the situation has escalated. I'm worried for you all.

@MrsT777

OP has pretty much done that.
GF did trip up. She threatened to go with other boys/suggested he kill his mother/dumped him - That's three massive 'in your face' trips. Her DS isn't interested in seeing them for what they are yet.

My personal (and repeated) suggestion is an intervention. Mates pick him up on Friday night - no argument. Take his phone off him and take him away for a weekend and try and get him to listen to them. He will resist and kick off but one of them could text GF and say it's not his decision. If she kicks off and starts sending abusive texts to the DS mates - she is just strengthening their argument.

A 16 year old isn't listening to advice from parents. But they are still reachable through their peers. I know OP has responded and said that his mates are worried but he keeps bailing on seeing them, which is why I said you should take it to 'intervention' level.

It's what you'd do for any kind of addict (which he is) that wasn't able to see the wood for the trees.

It's so sad to see that this is taking such a toll on you OP. Don't forget to look after yourself and your other children, you're all important.

He's addicted to her, and treating people with addictions can be even harder on those around the individual, than the addicted person themselves. But as we always hear, you can only ever help someone if they want to be helped. Sadly he's not at that stage yet, but stay with him and continue to support him so that when he does reach that stage, he knows he can turn to you for help.

I'm so sorry to see this is still dragging on for you OP x

We had a teen who was obsessed with her bf in my town.

Her mum tried to keep them separate and in the end the girl encouraged her bf to kill her mum and sister. He did.

There is a lot more to it than that simple reason but that is her excuse

They are called the twilight killers (you probably heard of them)

Can you look at co-dependency with him?

Look at the reasons why those intense feelings aren't "love" but co-dependency and that is why they are so extreme and making her happy makes him feel so good and why she is so driven to make these demands on him?

How much happier they both would be if they still had space for friends,hobbies and families.

I’d be most worried for my safety and that of my other children.

If he does something stupid even if it’s unsuccessful, he’ll end up with a criminal record. She will too.

He isn’t listening to sense. Whoever said it is like an addiction / cult is bang on.

OP, my very best wishes with resolving this godawful situation.

@workworkworkugh - I know this is a bit extreme too but have you asked him how he felt about the text from this horror suggesting he kill you? Have you asked him whether he actually considered it? Have you asked him if he would ever actually go through with it if she insisted?

I can well imagine that you don't actually want the answers to those questions, just in case, but I do think you should put the questions to him to see what his reaction is.

I also understand your temptation to throw in the towel and let him get on with it, but I also think you should still have more discussion with the school and maybe find a counsellor for yourself to help you deal with it.

If he has his "eye on the prize" then his gaze might get distracted if there's a few alternative women who pay him some attention.

Hi OP,
What a dreadful situation.
My son and his peer group all ended up in serious relationships around 16-18.
My son’s girlfriend, although she was a lot nicer than your son’s present girlfriend did cause him significant stress and worry during those years, arguing and calling at all hours, all night and sulking when he saw his friends, being possessive and jealous basically.
What split them up was Uni, they went to different parts of the country and eventually split up. In fact all the couples who did not go to the same Uni split up, about 8 couples, even the ones who wanted to marry and were most ‘in love’.
Is there a college you could send your son to after school -think of a long term strategy, you said that she is clever, perhaps she will go to Uni and rather than your son tagging along with her try to get some direction for him, heading anywhere but where she is going.

OP just breathe. You have planted the seeds and done a flipping amazing job at it. He will have a lightbulb moment. He will come back to you. Just know you have done all you can. None of this is your fault. Just be there for him for the fallout. You have to let him come to the conclusion himself.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad I have asked him, it's like he just wants to ignore it as if he admits how bad it is then he will have to leave her and that's not what he wants.
He brushed it off and just said he would never do it and she didn't mean it.

I'm sorry your family is going through this. You've done all you can and had countless talks with your son. Take a step back and hope he will see the light. Keep posting on here and people might come up with new ideas.

Does your son know how much this is affecting your mental health and home life?