To vote with my head instead of my heart?

[ImNotDaveGorman]

I need advice from random people as I don’t like to talk politics in real life.

I’m in scotland and we have an election next month. The 2 main parties in my area are SNP and conservative. TBH I really dislike them both, but absolutely detest SNP. For reasons I’m not going to get in to I really don’t want scotland to be independent (also, that is not what I want this tread to be about!). I found it so difficult during the last referendum-people were horrific to each other and I want that vote to stand.

So, every time there has been an election I have voted for the party I do like, but every time the results come out the percentages are tiny for any party that is not SNP or conservative! So, basically, I feel like my vote is being wasted.

So....
YABU-vote with your heart for the party you want

YANBU-vote conservative, the lesser of 2 evils (in my eyes) and hopefully we won’t have to go through a second referendum

Again-this is not a thread to change my mind on my reasons for being against Scottish independence, so I won’t be having that argument.

YANBU. Always use your head for any election

Either we had a huge number of accidents to signs, 0h and the police cars, or it was because we had a Labour MP and dominated council (by one person probaby as teh council is usualy failry split)and they brought in this bollox in the first place to try to compete with the votes going to SNP. So it depended on regional councils as some have them and some don't. I'd assumed it was country wide but was shocked to find northern areas (so let's say more likely to be speaking abit of gaelic in 1800) did not have these confusing dual signs.

They’re not confusing

@tabulahrasa

They’re not confusing

Who are you to make pronouncements on whether they're confusing for other people or not?

Seeing that contorted Gaelic word for "beach" under the word in English for it in Thurso was pretty strange. I felt like I'd been transported to Ireland rather than a heavily Norse influenced part of Scotland. I'd rather see the Norse word as well or in place of, particularly as it makes more sense to English speakers.

@LagunaBubbles Scotland is already in charge of its NHS. Oh and the SNP govt have refused to set up long covid clinics in Scotland whilst over 60 are already established in England and helping people now.
Apparently the current referral system is sufficient...... Tell that to the 30 year old in Aberdeen waiting over 6 months for a cardiology appointment because of covid!

“Who are you to make pronouncements on whether they're confusing for other people or not?

Seeing that contorted Gaelic word for "beach" under the word in English for it in Thurso was pretty strange. I felt like I'd been transported to Ireland rather than a heavily Norse influenced part of Scotland. I'd rather see the Norse word as well or in place of, particularly as it makes more sense to English speakers.”

Whether you like them or not isn’t the same thing...

As signs, they’re very straightforward.

[quote Scottishskifun]@LagunaBubbles Scotland is already in charge of its NHS. Oh and the SNP govt have refused to set up long covid clinics in Scotland whilst over 60 are already established in England and helping people now.
Apparently the current referral system is sufficient...... Tell that to the 30 year old in Aberdeen waiting over 6 months for a cardiology appointment because of covid![/quote]
I didn’t know this, that’s awful as the current system is terrible in Scotland for long COVID, someone I know was told by a GP I’ve never heard of anyone getting COVID and then not fully recovering! There is zero support for long COVID at the moment here, also our vaccination programme was much slower than England.
The SNP have had 14 years to sort out many areas NHS, education, all devolved, Nicola talks a good game but there’s no evidence they actually do anything right. We have a billion pound COVID deficit yet SNP are making rash promises to spend spend spend it just doesn’t make any financial sense. I fear we will all pay for their promises.

Scotland is already in charge of its NHS

Not if the budget its not. Has to come from Westminster at the moment. Do people really not understand that?

@tabulahrasa

“Who are you to make pronouncements on whether they're confusing for other people or not?

Seeing that contorted Gaelic word for "beach" under the word in English for it in Thurso was pretty strange. I felt like I'd been transported to Ireland rather than a heavily Norse influenced part of Scotland. I'd rather see the Norse word as well or in place of, particularly as it makes more sense to English speakers.”

Whether you like them or not isn’t the same thing...

As signs, they’re very straightforward.

I'm more interested in this latest SNP trend, notably grandiose, being used in arguments to silence detractors, with a one sentence scathing remark. Is this the latest advice to come out of Party HQ?

You are right in saying whether I like them or not is particularly relevant. What is concerning is the politically motivated focus on one extremely short period of Scottish history, remarkably short in some areas, which is being used to promote "difference".

In Gaelic, "beach" is not "strand" as in the rest of the Scandinavian influenced world (or even "fjara") but the incomprehensible, and unpronouncable "tràigh". I'm really good at languages, I make a passable attempt at 3 of them, but I have no idea how to pronounce "tràigh", nor do I have any desire to learn. Alien word.

@LagunaBubbles

Scotland is already in charge of its NHS

Not if the budget its not. Has to come from Westminster at the moment. Do people really not understand that?

Scotland raises a part of its own taxes, the formula from Westminster for Scotlands overall budget is more spending per head than what is assigned in England. It's the Scottish budget which allocates the proportion they wish and any extra which they raise to the NHS. Nothing to do with Westminster how the Scottish govt allocates it. Its why they have a Scottish budget!

So NHS Scotland is the responsibility of the SG. Hence SG refusal to set up long covid clinics which are helping people in England!

@awaynboilyurheid I didn't know either but unfortunately I'm still trying to recover from covid after a moderate case a month ago. Still off work due to symptoms.

My friend in England asked at what point I could seek a referral if it continues to the long covid clinics. So I Googled to find that the SG have refused stating instead they will do 2 million pounds of research and the referral system is sufficient....... Except the separate clinics in the hospitals have huge back lists due to covid and its multisystem from chest to neurology, fatigue etc etc so then you would have to wait for several different referrals instead of just one. It's a utter disgrace which the SNP govt has gone very quiet on!

Again Westminster blaming for poor economic decisions by SNP
Health spending in England has risen faster in recent years than it has in Scotland under the SNP even though they have a devolved spending budget for health which is not ruled over by Westminster.

@LagunaBubbles

Scotland is already in charge of its NHS

Not if the budget its not. Has to come from Westminster at the moment. Do people really not understand that?

Why are they committed to spending less than England on it whilst claiming more?

And where is the extra money they were given for the NHS this year?

That’s the thing about the SNP loud shouting about Westminster but go v quiet when shown all the unfulfilled promises yet to be made that they have economic responsibility for.
Scottish yes that’s not any system for long COVID help at all, as you say normal waiting lists are going to be horrendous so there needs to be clinics as in England.
Sadly I think there’s going to be a huge need for them.
I hope you feel better soon, it took my relative some time ( she was told huge enlarged lymph glands under both arm must be shaving rash! Clueless GP again! ) specialised clinics are essential.

“I'm more interested in this latest SNP trend, notably grandiose, being used in arguments to silence detractors, with a one sentence scathing remark. Is this the latest advice to come out of Party HQ?”

I wouldn’t have a clue... I’m not involved in the SNP in anyway.

“What is concerning is the politically motivated focus on one extremely short period of Scottish history, remarkably short in some areas, which is being used to promote "difference"”

Which is fair enough as a concern - but you’re being very dismissive of what is in fact still some people’s minority language and for a few, their majority language while voicing that concern.

I could tell you how to pronounce traigh, but as you have no desire to know - fair enough.

But the dual signs work perfectly well as signs in English too.

the signs aren't confusing if you know the area , know the places and know the roads.
But if you are lookiing for a name on a board with 6 listed when we formerly had 3 and you are doing say 60mph in busy traffic then obviously scanning 6 signs to find what you are looking for takes longer.

@Quincie

the signs aren't confusing if you know the area , know the places and know the roads. But if you are lookiing for a name on a board with 6 listed when we formerly had 3 and you are doing say 60mph in busy traffic then obviously scanning 6 signs to find what you are looking for takes longer.

If you don’t know the area, places or roads you don’t know how many places are going to be listed in a sign though...

And they’re in different colours.

It takes longer to make sense of a sign with 8 words on it than it does with 4.

Obviously.

@RaspberryCoulis

It takes longer to make sense of a sign with 8 words on it than it does with 4.

Obviously.

It’s negligible though, you don’t read every word on a sign when you’re looking for which turn off or exit to take... you’re scanning for the word you’re actually looking for.

If you can’t do that, tbh, you’d struggle to pass a driving test anyway.

Signs in certain places have no logical reason to be in Gaelic is a totally valid argument - but to try and say they’re actually confusing or they make any difference to navigation is just ridiculous.

@Quincie

the signs aren't confusing if you know the area , know the places and know the roads. But if you are lookiing for a name on a board with 6 listed when we formerly had 3 and you are doing say 60mph in busy traffic then obviously scanning 6 signs to find what you are looking for takes longer.

Has anyone been to Aviemore or Granton-on-Spey recently? There are some road placename signs there which are a small novel. I find them unreadable and quite distracting.

There are about 6 placenames on some signs, and what with the lengthy and often convoluted Gaelic names underneath them, are almost impossible to make sense of if you're visiting the area. You would have to stop in the middle of the road in order to actually search for the information you need.

It looks like the local newspaper for my above point about Caithness and tourists agree: www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/news/tourists-forced-to-stop-by-useless-gaelic-road-signs-107741/

I couldn't find the massive Aviemore roadsign online but there are 12 placenames on it alone. The below is an example of how confusing it can be, although not as bad as the one I have in mind.

And goodness knows why theres Gaelic wording on the Welcome to Scotland sign at the south east border on the A1, which was originally part of the Kingdom of Northumbria and pre-eminent in the development of Old English.

And this lack of understanding and forcing of a false unified Gaelic history in parts of Scotland which were never Gaelic speaking is causing a lot of concern.

www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2016/02/02/forcing-gaelic-on-our-schools-is-wrong-says-msp

www.shetlink.com/index.php?/forums/topic/3271-gaelic-road-signs/

So how do you all manage to get around in England if signs have lot of placenames on but all in English and the same colour? If you struggle with less and English is in a different colour?

@Quincie

the signs aren't confusing if you know the area , know the places and know the roads. But if you are lookiing for a name on a board with 6 listed when we formerly had 3 and you are doing say 60mph in busy traffic then obviously scanning 6 signs to find what you are looking for takes longer.

The gaelic translation is in a different colour and always above the english version. It's not difficult.

[quote CirclesWithinCircles]And this lack of understanding and forcing of a false unified Gaelic history in parts of Scotland which were never Gaelic speaking is causing a lot of concern.

www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2016/02/02/forcing-gaelic-on-our-schools-is-wrong-says-msp

www.shetlink.com/index.php?/forums/topic/3271-gaelic-road-signs/[/quote]
That’s totally fair to be concerned about that though - they have a completely different heritage that should not be ignored in favour of one that’s from elsewhere in the country.

That’s completely different from, urgh, there’s too many words on a sign and now I’m confused...

@tabulahrasa

So how do you all manage to get around in England if signs have lot of placenames on but all in English and the same colour? If you struggle with less and English is in a different colour?

Are you hard of understanding or deliberately playing dumb?

When you have lengthy Gaelic translations on road signs, that usually means trebling the number of words on a road sign. There are no Gaelic road signs in England. You really don't understand this???

Its rather hard to pick out the required placename you need from 12 choices, 6 of which are Gaelic. 6 choices is just about manageable. And yes, if might well be fine if you're local, but if you're local, you won't really need to be looking at the road signs anyway...