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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To vote with my head instead of my heart?

457 replies

ImNotDaveGorman · 19/04/2021 12:23

I need advice from random people as I don’t like to talk politics in real life.

I’m in scotland and we have an election next month. The 2 main parties in my area are SNP and conservative. TBH I really dislike them both, but absolutely detest SNP. For reasons I’m not going to get in to I really don’t want scotland to be independent (also, that is not what I want this tread to be about!). I found it so difficult during the last referendum-people were horrific to each other and I want that vote to stand.

So, every time there has been an election I have voted for the party I do like, but every time the results come out the percentages are tiny for any party that is not SNP or conservative! So, basically, I feel like my vote is being wasted.

So....
YABU-vote with your heart for the party you want

YANBU-vote conservative, the lesser of 2 evils (in my eyes) and hopefully we won’t have to go through a second referendum

Again-this is not a thread to change my mind on my reasons for being against Scottish independence, so I won’t be having that argument.

OP posts:
WouldBeGood · 22/04/2021 09:49

Just to be clear, anti SNP is not the same thing as anti Scottish.

Seymour5 · 22/04/2021 16:44

@tabulahrasa

“This is my only concern about when my DS hits school. Not him settling in, coping with work etc its the thought of him being bullied because his parents are English and he has a softer accent. That says a lot about the sad state of affairs this all brings.”

Sadly, that’s not new... if anything it’s better now than when I was young.

My DH moved to Scotland as a child. He and his brother were not treated kindly because they were very obviously English. I'm Scottish, born and bred, lived in Northern England since I was a young woman, and have always been accepted.

We were at a family wedding in Scotland pre lockdown and my adult son, English accent, was being ignored (pretty obviously) by the barman til one of his cousins stepped in. They all have the same set of English grandparents. I'm saddened by the divisions.

2bazookas · 22/04/2021 17:51

@LagunaBubbles

Cant believe anyone in Scotland would hate the SNP do much they would consider voting Tory but hey ho it takes all sorts I suppose.
It's not about hating the SNP. It's about preventing another INdyref in the next five years. Now is not the time for that.

In the next five years Scotland's entire attention should be focussed on recovering from covid and brexit and the damage covid did to the economy, the NHS and education.

user1471519931 · 22/04/2021 17:54

Fucking conservatives took away your EU citizenship!!!!! Your right to free movement across an incredible and rich continent..: don't reward them for it!

user1471519931 · 22/04/2021 18:01

@Quincie oy! Gaelic twaddle, what?! That's my heritage and culture you are dismissing there!! And it is my right in a democratic country to ask my msp/mp, council and government for the right to educate my children in this language... and to fight against the dying out (stamping out) of this language, its literature, its existence.

And for you it is Glasgow but for me it is Glaschu...that does not mean that the priority of the existence of Gaelic for me should come at the detriment to your language. No of course not but multiple languages can coexist. Just look at Switzerland ... or Belgium...

WouldBeGood · 22/04/2021 18:47

@user1471519931

Fucking conservatives took away your EU citizenship!!!!! Your right to free movement across an incredible and rich continent..: don't reward them for it!
Yes.. and now it will be further curtailed if the SNP get their way.

I want fewer borders, not more.

Againstmachine · 22/04/2021 18:52

The fucking SNP took away your rights to UK citizenship, same soundbite just changed a few words.

Most people don't ever end up living or working in Europe, but it would be different with the UK.

Quincie · 22/04/2021 18:53

@Quincie oy! Gaelic twaddle, what?! That's my heritage and culture you are dismissing there!!

Yes, but you are attempting to remove my english speaking heritage.
The gaelicifying of place names that have a norse heritage, or an english one - that's just as annoying for non gaelic speakers.
And I'm in the south west I bet the gaelic spoken here was IRish gaelic - we are much nearer Ireland than the Highlands and Islands.

WouldBeGood · 22/04/2021 19:18

Gaelic signs and stuff are a big waste of taxpayers money. Gaelic is not the language of most of Scotland.

Againstmachine · 22/04/2021 19:19

Welcome to Wales where they do same in a pointless exercise as everyone understands English.

CirclesWithinCircles · 22/04/2021 19:22

@WouldBeGood

Gaelic signs and stuff are a big waste of taxpayers money. Gaelic is not the language of most of Scotland.
I think they are fine in areas where there are actually a number of Gaelic speakers, but to come across them in Thurso was a bit of a shock. Yes, I know it was partly Gaelic speaking for a short period in its history, but it was Norse speaking as well and a lot of the placenames are Norse. And of course Shetland, which did lose its own distinct version of Danish once it was pawned by the Danish Crown and became part of Scotland in the 16th Century, gets no support from the Scottish Government for Norse placenames. Which are actually really helpful there because most of the placenames are so extremely Norse.

I do think the Gaelic placenames are over-promoted for political reasons and from that perspective, they seem a bit fake. I also have no idea how to pronounce them and no desire to learn - I'd rather learn Danish or Norwegian, which would be a damned sight more useful!

WouldBeGood · 22/04/2021 19:23

It’s just more of the tartan shortbread posturing.

tabulahrasa · 22/04/2021 19:26

“And I'm in the south west I bet the gaelic spoken here was IRish gaelic - we are much nearer Ireland than the Highlands and Islands.“

The evidence suggests otherwise tbh, though there’s a wee pocket of Norse down there, which I’m assuming comes via the islands

tabulahrasa · 22/04/2021 19:48

“I do think the Gaelic placenames are over-promoted for political reasons and from that perspective, they seem a bit fake.”

Hmm, yes and no though... language is political, always.

But also Scots and English grammar works differently and you can actually see that some of it in Scots definitely comes from Gaelic, so it’s not quite as dead as you’d think.

Translating place names with no Gaelic heritage does seem ridiculous, but, it is a shame that it was practically killed off - and it was killed off rather than died out. I grew up in Argyll, where it’s not quite dead yet and my parents generation were given the belt for speaking Gaelic in school. It’s things like that that have turned it into a political football.

user1471519931 · 22/04/2021 20:16

The Gaelic is only included where signs are new or being renewed, so therefore the cost to the taxpayer is frankly negligible...

user1471519931 · 22/04/2021 20:19

@Againstmachine speak for yourself - I know loads of people who have lived, worked, studied in the EU, retired there, own property there, are married to EU citizens...

Againstmachine · 22/04/2021 20:24

speak for yourself - I know loads of people who have lived, worked, studied in the EU, retired there, own property there, are married to EU citizens...

You may well do but it majority of people it's irrelevant.

TeeniefaeTroon · 22/04/2021 20:49

I'm in the same area as you and while I don't want independence there's no way I'd vote Tory. Our MP at the moment is a complete clown, just thankful that he's not up for re-election as an mp this time. I have found Lockhead to be very helpful when I've had queries, Dross doesn't even reply to my emails.
I'll be voting Lockhead.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 22/04/2021 21:51

Yes, sick of Wales welshifying place names that have been historically spelt in varying English / Norman forms since the Normans. It’s weird seeing names from my childhood erased and replaced with ‘welsh’ versions.

Selkiesarereal · 22/04/2021 22:22

I do think that it is important to ensure the survival of the Gaelic language but it is not the language for Scotland and never has been. Where I grew up, Gaelic was never spoken and I think there would be a uprising I’d signs incorporated Gaelic, now on the other hand, Norse would be absolutely fine.

In this election, I really don’t know who to vote for this time. I hate what SNP are doing to my country, (thinking of the delayed education report), but in my constituency it is tight between Tory and Labour in second and third place. Labour have a candidate who is really woke and for me knowing what a women is , is really important to me unlike them. So I just don’t know for candidate but list is fine.

user1471519931 · 22/04/2021 22:22

But are you seriously willing to stand by and let these minority languages die out during your lifetime? Fine if you don't care but please allow people who have a different view to exercise their democratic rights... it's about preserving our rich human heritage surely?

LagunaBubbles · 22/04/2021 22:23

It's not about hating the SNP. It's about preventing another INdyref in the next five years. Now is not the time for that

Oh it is for lots of people judging by the awful stuff I've read especially on Facebook.

In the next five years Scotland's entire attention should be focussed on recovering from covid and brexit and the damage covid did to the economy, the NHS and education

I'm a Nurse here in Glasgow. The only way the NHS will be safe is gaining independence.

WouldBeGood · 22/04/2021 22:29

Scotland is already in charge of its NHS.

CirclesWithinCircles · 22/04/2021 23:25

@user1471519931

The Gaelic is only included where signs are new or being renewed, so therefore the cost to the taxpayer is frankly negligible...
Oh aye. And which crony is deciding on when all the new signs are needed, and which other crony is supplying them in Happy Clappy Its All Going To Be Wonderful Land?
CirclesWithinCircles · 22/04/2021 23:28

@user1471519931

But are you seriously willing to stand by and let these minority languages die out during your lifetime? Fine if you don't care but please allow people who have a different view to exercise their democratic rights... it's about preserving our rich human heritage surely?
Which languages are those? Gaelic is a language, in the singular. Norn has already been forced to die out, after Shetland and Orkney were made part of Scotland. Theres no government funding for its restitution, and all attempts to create a Norn dictionary etc have been privately funded. Nothing from the Scottish Government at all. The few Norse signposts are not funded by the SG. So don't try and pretend that they are doing anything for any other language than Gaelic.