To vote with my head instead of my heart?

[ImNotDaveGorman]

I need advice from random people as I don’t like to talk politics in real life.

I’m in scotland and we have an election next month. The 2 main parties in my area are SNP and conservative. TBH I really dislike them both, but absolutely detest SNP. For reasons I’m not going to get in to I really don’t want scotland to be independent (also, that is not what I want this tread to be about!). I found it so difficult during the last referendum-people were horrific to each other and I want that vote to stand.

So, every time there has been an election I have voted for the party I do like, but every time the results come out the percentages are tiny for any party that is not SNP or conservative! So, basically, I feel like my vote is being wasted.

So....
YABU-vote with your heart for the party you want

YANBU-vote conservative, the lesser of 2 evils (in my eyes) and hopefully we won’t have to go through a second referendum

Again-this is not a thread to change my mind on my reasons for being against Scottish independence, so I won’t be having that argument.

The dislike in Scotland for the Conservative party greatly predates independence being a serious possibility, and predates the rise of the SNP as well.

Kirsty Blackman. That is all you need to focus on OP

This proves my long held theory that actually Scotland is a hugely divided country.
Why would Aberdonians give a monkeys about the crap roads in SW Scotland? Answer - they don't. Edinburgh and Glasgow - rivals, never a team, but SNP voters so money goes their way. The highlands, well they've had extra cash due to isolation etc unlike the rest of Scotland. It used to be rich tourists going there for the fishing, shooting and taxes filtered down to the wole economy, now it's people in tents and vans paying nothing into the economy, not even cleaning up after themselves.
Then there's the sectarianism on the west coast - how many centuries is that going to run. But now we are all speaking our native gaelic - hahahaha - hilarious, last native gaelic was spoken in 1700s round here, but we have to pay to have POLIS on our cars. I'm Scottish and 70 and I've met one native gaelic speaker - ONE, he was from Argyll, and died about 10 years ago aged 95.
We need to model the Scandinavian countries, chuck out the shortbread tins and ridiculous historic claims, concentrate on education fit for global competition , give people options other than drugs - but no it's a hate crime bill, named person, baby boxes. pathetic.

“This proves my long held theory that actually Scotland is a hugely divided country.”

It is though... the SNP and the push forward independence aren’t causing the divide, just highlighting it.

“but we have to pay to have POLIS on our cars”

Well in fairness... it’s not extra, it’s when they get painted anyway.

And of all the Gaelic signage, polis is my favourite.

As you well know, I had previously talked multiple times about the need for motorways on Scotland bwtween the central belt and Aberdeen and Inverness. Of course there's no need for a bloody motorway in Shetland - what idiot would suggest that?

Why would you need a motorway? The A90 is dualled from Dundee to Aberdeen, how would adding a hard shoulder improve things significantly? And they are working to dual the A9 are they not?

Yes, a journey in a plane for anyone who needs an mri scanner is just great because the hospital is too small to have one. The hospital in the lofoten Islands in Norway has one though.

Interesting that you've chosen Norway as an example here. One reason Norway are able to fund their public services better than the Scottish/UK government is because their oil wealth has only ever had to cater to the needs if 5 million people, not 68 million. If Scotland were independent from the start we too might have had the funds to building fully equipped hospitals everywhere. Another reason Norway can do this is they have much higher taxes, something an independent Scotland could implement but something a Tory government (and the UK population in general) are always opposed to. Neither of these issues stem from the SNP though.

And yes, there are some tiny, non full sized swimming pools in some tiny leisure centres in Shetland - just like normal sports facilities that you have in places of comparable size in other European countries then.

See above re funding.

Maybe because the local authority is less corrupt than those in Edinburgh and Glasgow and more likely to spend money on the people that actually live there, crater than their cronies' propped up businesses?

A huge reason for the state of the North East is the failure of their local councils to invest/diversify for a future after the oil boom. I remember attending seminars over a decade ago on this subject so it's not new or a surprise, rather it stems from the complete ineptitude of the local authorities up there.

Out of interest do you really think a Tory or Labour central government in Westminster will care more about the North East of Scotland (a country the Tories have actively shown disdain for) anymore than an SNP government in Holyrood? Considering Aberdeen Council has been Labour/Conservative led for years and they've failed at every step I don't see how.

@reprehensibleme

Bluemoonrising I could go through this thread and find the nasty insults put the way of people daring to suggest they may vote for the tories. Being accused of voting maliciously, not having a moral compass, being a hypocrite and much more - all on this thread. And this division is pretty much wholly down to the SNP pushing ahead for another referendum. They've divided this country more than the tories have ever done.

You certainly could find those posts, and you'd be doing a grand job of proving my point!

We need to model the Scandinavian countries, chuck out the shortbread tins and ridiculous historic claims, concentrate on education fit for global competition , give people options other than drugs - but no it's a hate crime bill, named person, baby boxes. pathetic.

If you want a Scandinavian model in Scotland then you need independence. That model is based on free education, high taxes and a strong welfare system. England are, and always have been, opposed to such a model, as demonstrated by their constant voting in of the Tories. I'm also not convinced such a model can work in a country as large as the UK. Sweden is the largest of the Nordic model countries with just over 10 million people, a long way short if the 68 million in the UK, and they're twice as large as any of the rest.

Bluemoonrising, nope, you've lost me....

@reprehensibleme

Bluemoonrising, nope, you've lost me....

I was making the point that intolerance between SNP and Tory supporters goes both way on this thread, to someone that could only see it go one way.

@Buccanarab you spend quite a lot of time going around the multiple round abouts and stuck in traffic at Dundee if travelling NE to the central belt.

The A9 doesn't link Inverness to Aberdeen. The majority of this is single carriageway.

The North East has tried to diversify we have offshore and onshore wind farms yet the manufacturer of the wind farms is done elsewhere as their has been little investment or incentive from SG to develop these expertise in the NE. In fact most renewable companies (not the building whihh is usually based overseas) for Scotland are based in Edinburgh........ Oh look another central belt development of industry!

I also highly doubt that the UK govt would take on the full decommissioning cost of the oil industry if SG insist on stating its Scotlands in an independent Scotland which is a 50% tax payer burden BTW....

LA can't attract or set up these sorts of things without SG help. Sadly the SG has mainly been focused on central belt as that's where the majority of their voters are stuff the rest of us further North!

Yes, I see that, which is what was behind my comment about the SNP doing a better job of dividing the nation than anyone including the tories. You've quoted a couple of my posts but I don't think I've resorted to any particular nasty insults - I haven't denigrated anyone's moral compass. You, as the saying goes, do you.

I'll back out of these threads now - nobody's going to change their mind, insults don't help, many people are obviously really struggling. Sad to see.

@Buccanarab

As you well know, I had previously talked multiple times about the need for motorways on Scotland bwtween the central belt and Aberdeen and Inverness. Of course there's no need for a bloody motorway in Shetland - what idiot would suggest that?

Why would you need a motorway? The A90 is dualled from Dundee to Aberdeen, how would adding a hard shoulder improve things significantly? And they are working to dual the A9 are they not?

Yes, a journey in a plane for anyone who needs an mri scanner is just great because the hospital is too small to have one. The hospital in the lofoten Islands in Norway has one though.

Interesting that you've chosen Norway as an example here. One reason Norway are able to fund their public services better than the Scottish/UK government is because their oil wealth has only ever had to cater to the needs if 5 million people, not 68 million. If Scotland were independent from the start we too might have had the funds to building fully equipped hospitals everywhere. Another reason Norway can do this is they have much higher taxes, something an independent Scotland could implement but something a Tory government (and the UK population in general) are always opposed to. Neither of these issues stem from the SNP though.

And yes, there are some tiny, non full sized swimming pools in some tiny leisure centres in Shetland - just like normal sports facilities that you have in places of comparable size in other European countries then.

See above re funding.

Maybe because the local authority is less corrupt than those in Edinburgh and Glasgow and more likely to spend money on the people that actually live there, crater than their cronies' propped up businesses?

A huge reason for the state of the North East is the failure of their local councils to invest/diversify for a future after the oil boom. I remember attending seminars over a decade ago on this subject so it's not new or a surprise, rather it stems from the complete ineptitude of the local authorities up there.

Out of interest do you really think a Tory or Labour central government in Westminster will care more about the North East of Scotland (a country the Tories have actively shown disdain for) anymore than an SNP government in Holyrood? Considering Aberdeen Council has been Labour/Conservative led for years and they've failed at every step I don't see how.

Thanks for your post. I've 8noy got time to address two of your points.

1. Why shouldn't Scotland have motorways between its cities, as in other countries? They reduce deaths and the problem of having tractors on major arterial routes, speed traffic flow and avoid routing traffic heading north through cities like Dundee. I'm pretty sure if motorways weren't desirable, every other country would have much cheaper dual carriageways instead.

The 4eason Scandinavians accept paying high taxes is that the Scandinavian countries are characterised by low corruption and high trust in government. That 9atentky isn't the case in Scotland. We see high levels of local and national corruption, cand strong mistrust of Scottish politicians who behave consistently quite abominably. You also won't find Scandinavian politucuans vilifying their own countrymen for buying second homes - instead it's encouraged and seen as a reward for spending all week working in a city.

Its difficult to know how far it reaches, certainoy no one seems to know why Scottish enterprise props up certain failing small companies while ignoring others. There's no logical explanation why a swimming pool should cost 6 times as much to build in Scotland as in the Netherlands, or indeed a tram network. I dont understand why the Scottish Parliament didn't debate the Edinburgh statutory notice scandal and why so few council employees were jailed and it was brushed under the carpet. I do find almost as concerning as the hate crime Bill the control that local authorities and the SG are exerting over the property market. Every single private holiday let is to be licensed by 2023 (even if its only a spare room on a rural farm let out a few weeks per year). Every landlord is registered, every HMO not only registered but heavily controlled. This only drives up prices for consumers, which ultimately benefits those creating the rules. There is a whole industry in complying with annual changes to the hmo regulations that doesn't exist in any other European country, which most add thousands onto the rent charged. No one understands why tens of thousands of new builds are going up around Aberdeen when the property market in the city has effectively crashed. No one ubdersrands why a single household wishing to extend their home for their growing family has to pay for planning gain to the LA, while a large developer doesn't even have to pay for footpaths or a health centre. It all smacks too much of cronyism and corruption for me, and of people who strand to gain by controlling certain markets and making it impossible for competition to flourish.

I think what many actually hope for in rural Scotland certainly is just to be left alone by government, rather than further regulated, licensed, controlled and taxed, so from that perspective alone Westminster seems a safer bet than Holyrood.

I absolutely agree that the SNP have divided the country way more than the Tories. Mainly because the tories have done a great job over my entire lifetime, of uniting the majority of Scotland against them.

And this division is pretty much wholly down to the SNP pushing ahead for another referendum. They've divided this country more than the tories have ever done

Absolute rubbish, Scotland feelings towards the Tories goes back a lot further eg Maggie Thatcher and the poll tax introduced a year early. Its the opposite- support for the SNP and in turn independence has increased because of the Tories. I'm not even a huge SNP fan but they are a means to an end.

Much of the south and the borders voted Tory - maybe we can stay with England after devolution and just the central belt move to independence. Oh, and Shetland too.

You never know!

In the same boat @ImNotDaveGorman

It’s bloody tricky.

Shetland could always go back to Denmark... (there was actually a guy who proposed exactly that should happen)

I’m in Wales in a Labour area. My heart is with Plaid but I always vote Labour as I would do anything to keep that twat Andrew RT Davies out. Despise the Tories with every fibre of my being!

Please vote any way that keeps SNP out. If that means voting Conservative, then so be it. I say this as a Scottish person.

I’m in Scotland and exactly the situation. I hate hate HATE the SNP with every fibre of my being. I would vote Lib Dem if I thought they had a hope in hell of getting it, but they don’t. Therefore I’ll prob end up voting Conservative, as a Tactical vote to try and stop the SNP.

My worrying thing is the way the SNP supporters treat anyone who doesn't agree with them , it tends to be pure hatred.

Nicola getting cleared is hilarious, she forgot meetings, if she wasn't guilty of misconduct then she's guilty of being incompetent which is it.

@WilsonMilson

Please vote any way that keeps SNP out. If that means voting Conservative, then so be it. I say this as a Scottish person.

Even if it means impoverishing sick and disabled people further? Cuz yeah, fuck them. Your vote is your own but their voting record with regards to sick, disabled and poor people is disgusting.

@osbertthesyrianhamster the problem is the SNP have a terrible record on dealing with poverty: child poverty in Scotland is high and the attainment gap wide. There’s also the Hate Crime Bill criminalising speech in one’s own home, and concerted anti women legislation, etc etc.

Plus the Scottish electoral system was designed to create a parliament without an overall majority. This is still the case but the Greens (the SNP gardening wing) just support everything for deals.

I abhor the Tories but the SNP are also corrupt and terribly divisive up here. It’s a dilemma.