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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To vote with my head instead of my heart?

457 replies

ImNotDaveGorman · 19/04/2021 12:23

I need advice from random people as I don’t like to talk politics in real life.

I’m in scotland and we have an election next month. The 2 main parties in my area are SNP and conservative. TBH I really dislike them both, but absolutely detest SNP. For reasons I’m not going to get in to I really don’t want scotland to be independent (also, that is not what I want this tread to be about!). I found it so difficult during the last referendum-people were horrific to each other and I want that vote to stand.

So, every time there has been an election I have voted for the party I do like, but every time the results come out the percentages are tiny for any party that is not SNP or conservative! So, basically, I feel like my vote is being wasted.

So....
YABU-vote with your heart for the party you want

YANBU-vote conservative, the lesser of 2 evils (in my eyes) and hopefully we won’t have to go through a second referendum

Again-this is not a thread to change my mind on my reasons for being against Scottish independence, so I won’t be having that argument.

OP posts:
WouldBeGood · 21/04/2021 18:28

And they’re pure nuts on lockdown and puritanical on drink

osbertthesyrianhamster · 21/04/2021 18:34

Yeah, but Tories? For real? Honestly. Your vote is yours but Tories? I'd spoil the ballot before voting for them. They're horrible.

WouldBeGood · 21/04/2021 18:42

Yeah, but spoiling the ballot doesn’t get the SNP out. And voting Labour might not, although Scottish Labour are sounding good and not getting involved in the petty squabbles of the SNP and Scottish Tories.

I’m not saying it’s right, but the consequences of an effective majority for the SNP are catastrophic for women and public services. And they are corrupt and sleazy as any Tory. Also involved in Greensill. Sex scandals, money missing, it’s like the last days of Rome.

I’m wrestling with it @osbertthesyrianhamster. But they need to be stopped.

WouldBeGood · 21/04/2021 18:44

*voting Labour depending where you live.

It’s probably hard really to see it if you’re not a Scot who’s not in favour of independence. It’s pretty visceral up here.

Seymour5 · 21/04/2021 19:41

@osbertthesyrianhamster

Yeah, but Tories? For real? Honestly. Your vote is yours but Tories? I'd spoil the ballot before voting for them. They're horrible.
I presume all the Tory haters stuck to their principles and refused to buy their council houses at knock down prices? I live in a Labour stronghold in Northern England, and those principles meant nothing to the vast majority of Labour voters when it came to a bargain.

I'm not an SNP fan, but I'm pleased they had the courage to withdraw Right to Buy.

19lottie82 · 21/04/2021 19:56

Yeah, but Tories? For real? Honestly.

If it’s a choice between the tories and the SNP, then I’d choose the tories every time.

osbertthesyrianhamster · 21/04/2021 19:56

I presume all the Tory haters stuck to their principles and refused to buy their council houses at knock down prices?

What a wild presumption. No, I never bought my council house, I never had one to buy, either.

19lottie82 · 21/04/2021 19:58

I presume all the Tory haters stuck to their principles and refused to buy their council houses at knock down prices? I live in a
Labour stronghold in Northern England,
and those principles meant nothing to the vast majority of Labour voters when it
came to a bargain.

You don’t need to agree with and live by every single policy if you vote for a party.

DdraigGoch · 21/04/2021 19:59

[quote BlueMoonRising]@DdraigGoch

These are the first ones I found by randomly scrolling and stopping.

Honestly the anti-Tory people on here are nuts!

And

*:17reprehensibleme

But of course the SNP play every win as support for a referendum so that argument doesn't wash if you don't support independence.

Do SNP supporters at all understand the level of distress the continual threat of another referendum causes some people?

Today 09:19RaspberryCoulis

No, @reprehensibleme, they don't.

They don't have a clue.

Today 09:19mermaidsariel

They don’t care. They’re only interested in pushing their own agenda.*

And

We really must ensure that these Scottish Nats. realise we do not want them any more and we certainly don't want another referendum

And

It's no wonder people are considering voting tory when you observe the utter disdain coming from SNP supporters for anyone worried about another referendum and the fallout, the HCB, GRA, the mess the education system is in, drug deaths etc etc[/quote]
None of which is anything like "go back to England you Tory scum" which has been said to posters by "friends" and colleagues.

PrelovedWithValue · 21/04/2021 20:46

None of which is anything like "go back to England you Tory scum" which has been said to posters by "friends" and colleagues

Agreed. And that's not okay. But I was specifically talking about this thread, and the fact that the negativity towards the other side goes both ways.

As it does in life generally.

DdraigGoch · 21/04/2021 21:28

@PrelovedWithValue

None of which is anything like "go back to England you Tory scum" which has been said to posters by "friends" and colleagues

Agreed. And that's not okay. But I was specifically talking about this thread, and the fact that the negativity towards the other side goes both ways.

As it does in life generally.

But it goes overwhelmingly more one way than the other.

Those planning to support unionist parties have stated that they are doing so on the basis of particular policies the SNP has that they disagree with. Attacking issues, not making it personal. That is how respectful debate is done.

From the other side however, posters have attacked anyone considering voting Conservative, stopping short only at implying that they want orphaned children to die. That is not how respectful debate is done.

UrAWizHarry · 22/04/2021 00:11

"But it goes overwhelmingly more one way than the other."

Nah, it doesn't. You don't have to look far on this board for plenty of anti-snp, anti-scottish ranting. During indyref 1 I dared to say I was a reluctant yes supporter and I got told, and I quote, to "fuck off you ungrateful bitch".

Original poster
ImNotDaveGorman · 22/04/2021 06:02

Bloody hell!
Well at least this thread has shown why I would do anything to stop another referendum.
The amount of hate in this country terrifies me.

OP posts:
Original poster
ImNotDaveGorman · 22/04/2021 06:19

@UrAWizHarry but ok, I’ll bite.

Anti SNP....fine (in the same way I have no issue with anyone liking or disliking a political party).
But please tell me where you have seen anti Scottish posts?

For years I have been told I’m anti Scottish because I don’t suppose the SNP. Is that what you mean??

OP posts:
Original poster
ImNotDaveGorman · 22/04/2021 06:40

@UrAWizHarry apologies, I think I misread your post.
I thought you were saying that was happening on this thread.

I’m sorry someone said that to you. It’s shocking, and just proves my point. It’s becoming awful how people are being treated!

OP posts:
titsintiers · 22/04/2021 07:30

This thread just shows how polarised things are in Scotland right now. Constant bullshit statements along the lines of:

If you don't support the snp then you're Tory.

We need to divorce from Westminster because of the current, temporary administration.

How could you possibly vote Tory.

We need to get away from this divisiveness. It's not that long really since working class women were enfranchised. We shouldn't be judging the personal decision at the ballot box of other people.

Absolutely fecking sick of listening to it.

Quincie · 22/04/2021 08:23

I voted for independence - thinking that an independent Scotland would prioritise education, encourage new industries, entrepreneurship, open up to a more global position in the world, maybe reduce the number of religious schools - how fing wrong can you be.
We are petty and chasing our past with the gaelic twaddle, protecting religions (some with beliefs better suited to the middle ages), anti-women, school results worse, drug taking up, petty stuff like baby boxes when we actually need good support for mums from birth, absolutely awful, And covering the non national trust areas with conifer plantations and windfarms - stuff tourism, only the central belt matters.

Best of luck Scotland if you go independent - you are going to need it.

WouldBeGood · 22/04/2021 08:51

Yes. The division is awful. DS is half English and gets loads of stick for it at school even now.

In 2014 he was only six, and again got loads of stuff about getting the English out, etc.

As well as what @titsintiers and @Quincie said.

tabulahrasa · 22/04/2021 09:11

@ImNotDaveGorman

Bloody hell! Well at least this thread has shown why I would do anything to stop another referendum. The amount of hate in this country terrifies me.
But it doesn’t go away because there’s no referendum.

The people telling posters to go home, the people chanting no surrender at voters outside polling stations, the people who trashed George square “celebrating” the result...

They’re all still there, thinking the same way whether there’s another referendum or not.

19lottie82 · 22/04/2021 09:17

They’re all still there, thinking the same way whether there’s another referendum or not.

The same can very much be said for both sides!

Scottishskifun · 22/04/2021 09:26

@WouldBeGood

Yes. The division is awful. DS is half English and gets loads of stick for it at school even now.

In 2014 he was only six, and again got loads of stuff about getting the English out, etc.

As well as what @titsintiers and @Quincie said.

This is my only concern about when my DS hits school. Not him settling in, coping with work etc its the thought of him being bullied because his parents are English and he has a softer accent. That says a lot about the sad state of affairs this all brings.

Personally I think the SG should have done more to work on healing after the last referendum.

UrAWizHarry · 22/04/2021 09:32

[quote ImNotDaveGorman]@UrAWizHarry apologies, I think I misread your post.
I thought you were saying that was happening on this thread.

I’m sorry someone said that to you. It’s shocking, and just proves my point. It’s becoming awful how people are being treated![/quote]
Yes, I should clarify that comment was made to me in a pub in England.

But all over the board you see as many anti-snp/ anti-scottish posts as you do anti-tory posts as far as I am concerned. It's not right either way, but it's certainly not one sided.

.

tabulahrasa · 22/04/2021 09:35

“The same can very much be said for both sides!”

I mentioned both sides...that was very much part of my point. The people willing to be offensive to others don’t just stop because there is or isn’t a referendum going on.

tabulahrasa · 22/04/2021 09:37

“This is my only concern about when my DS hits school. Not him settling in, coping with work etc its the thought of him being bullied because his parents are English and he has a softer accent. That says a lot about the sad state of affairs this all brings.”

Sadly, that’s not new... if anything it’s better now than when I was young.

DdraigGoch · 22/04/2021 09:43

They’re all still there, thinking the same way whether there’s another referendum or not.
People can think whatever they like. It is what they say out loud and do which matters.

We kept being told that the 2016 EU referendum had given troglodytes carte blanche to abuse. How is this different? Stirring everything up again will only encourage troglodytes to dust off their clubs.