Why does he act so horrid?

[Thereoncewasahorridmama]

DS was pulling grass up to throw at Daddy, all fine. Then he pulled up my leafy plants. I told him off and explained they grow flowers that feed the bees and butterflies and they'll get hungry and we don't want that do we.
He tells me he DOES want that
So I ask how he'd feel if someone took away his food so he was hungry?
He says he's like that (he's a terrible eater)
So I ask of he'd like to have a grumbly hungry tummy and to get so tired he'd have to be in bed every day (he's hyper and never still so he'd hate to be stuck in bed)
He said yes, that's exactly what he wants.

He does it with other stuff. He'll shout and wake the babies. I'll tell him off and tell him the babies will cry and be sad if they don't get sleep
He'll say good, he likes it when they cry.

He's nearly 6. He's lovely. He adores the babies. He always offers to give away his toy if he gets a duplicate (say McDonalds etc).

So why is he so oppositional? And I find it really triggering so we get into debates like the flower one. It normally ends with me saying I don't believe him because I know he's a nice boy etc, or me telling him to go and sit away from me if he's going to be so horrid (for example making the babies sad)

I just don't understand why he says it. He also never wants to do to school and doesn't want to do anything when he's older except sit on the sofa.

I know it's something I'm doing but I don't know how to fix it. I've pointed out other people might believe it and this he IS horrid but he doesn't seem to care

He might feel like you're debating so he can't lose face by agreeing.

Have you tried just saying he can't do those things (insert X consequence if he continues) and explaining why, removing the debate element?

Why are you entering into debates with a 6 yr old, who by the sound of it, is winning,

Why are you debating? He's 6. You're making him think he has a choice.

or me telling him to go and sit away from me if he's going to be so horrid

Please don't tell me you actually say this to a 6 year old.

He is 5 what are you expecting

Just tell him. It’s not a debate he’s six.

@georgarina

He might feel like you're debating so he can't lose face by agreeing.

Have you tried just saying he can't do those things (insert X consequence if he continues) and explaining why, removing the debate element?

Yes obv I told him he wasn't to pull up the flowers, but I wanted to give context to why not

@RoseRedRoseBlue

Why are you entering into debates with a 6 yr old, who by the sound of it, is winning,

I don't know

@Aquamarine1029 no but it's what's I'm thinking. He's told to go over there to play instead of saying such mean things.

I know I've got into this habit of everything turning into this back and forth.

Obv he's told no, and he does stop but I want him to understand why he shouldn't do it not just follow orders so that he won't do similar things in the future.

But we end up in this place where he tells me he WANTS to be Naughty and he WANTS to be sad and he likes it and shouting and I'm just wondering inside why he is like this and what I've done and why he can't be like other children his age who want to be good and happy

Because he is 6 your explanation is longwinded he probably lost concentration at the start.
Stern "don't do that" if he questions explain.
It's tough when you're trying to teach them to be empathetic.
It sound's like he is kind just a little stubborn which can be used as drive when he grows up.
My niece was defiant and stubborn wouldn't be told off, had to have the last word now she's ambitious successful and confident.

His 5 !

You say "He doesn't want to do anything when his older, but sit on the sofa"

His 5

Stop pandering to him when he's being a little shit. You're the parent!

Ig,nore him when he says he wants to be naughty reply with you're such a good boy, keep praising even when he's pushing.

It reads like you're giving him the opportunity to say these oppositional things by asking 'rhetorical questions' like 'we don't want that, do we'

A simple instruction followed by reason, then change the subject, will suffice!

@lolacola77

Stop pandering to him when he's being a little shit. You're the parent!

He isn't being pandered to. He was told to stop it, and to apologise to Mommy and the bees and butterflies. Which he did. And he didn't touch them again.

He isn’t horrid, he isn’t ‘like that’, he just wants to not concede a point.

Just say “don’t pull up my plants, please’. ‘They are my plants, I like them, the bees like them, don’t pull them up’ and if he argues back (because he is well in the habit now) just say ‘because they are my plants, and that’s the end of it’ abd if he dies it again send him indoors.

My niece was defiant and stubborn wouldn't be told off, had to have the last word now she's ambitious successful and confident.
He's Def stubborn. Useful when he was tiny and poorly. Cute when he was learning to do stuff. Quite annoying in a 5 yo 😂

@Walkacrossthesand

It reads like you're giving him the opportunity to say these oppositional things by asking 'rhetorical questions' like 'we don't want that, do we'

A simple instruction followed by reason, then change the subject, will suffice!

Yes I think you're right about opportunity. And then I worry because he's saying those things that he'll believe them and then act them out in future because he would have decided he IS naughty

Thank you @RainingBatsAndFrogs I think you're right that I need to just get onto these discussions less. It isn't like I had to tell him now then once, I do with the shouting and then I struggle with what punishment won't end in exactly the behaviour I'm trying to stop. I feel like it's we can talk it through he'll understand.

@Thereoncewasahorridmama

DS was pulling grass up to throw at Daddy, all fine. Then he pulled up my leafy plants. I told him off and explained they grow flowers that feed the bees and butterflies and they'll get hungry and we don't want that do we. He tells me he DOES want that So I ask how he'd feel if someone took away his food so he was hungry? He says he's like that (he's a terrible eater) So I ask of he'd like to have a grumbly hungry tummy and to get so tired he'd have to be in bed every day (he's hyper and never still so he'd hate to be stuck in bed) He said yes, that's exactly what he wants.

He does it with other stuff. He'll shout and wake the babies. I'll tell him off and tell him the babies will cry and be sad if they don't get sleep
He'll say good, he likes it when they cry.

He's nearly 6. He's lovely. He adores the babies. He always offers to give away his toy if he gets a duplicate (say McDonalds etc).

So why is he so oppositional? And I find it really triggering so we get into debates like the flower one. It normally ends with me saying I don't believe him because I know he's a nice boy etc, or me telling him to go and sit away from me if he's going to be so horrid (for example making the babies sad)

I just don't understand why he says it. He also never wants to do to school and doesn't want to do anything when he's older except sit on the sofa.

I know it's something I'm doing but I don't know how to fix it. I've pointed out other people might believe it and this he IS horrid but he doesn't seem to care

Try “They are MY flowers and I don’t want you to kill them. You will be in trouble if you pull them up” or “The babies need sleep to be well and happy. You will be in trouble if you wake them up”.

He doesn’t sound as though the “reasoning everything through” approach works for him. It’s certainly giving him too much power as he just chooses to be a contrarian about everything, by the sounds of it.

If he knows you will take a really gentle, explanatory approach to each incident l, he will just wear you out taking everything to extremes. Don’t be afraid to put hard boundaries and non-negotiables in place. All children have to go to school. We don’t damage things. We allow babies to sleep. Etc.

His attention span is probably short while he gets a kick out of bugging you.
A good idea might be to talk to him when he's calm suggest non harmful pranks so he gets his kicks.

What does he do for leisure, play or hobbies?

Could he be one of those DC who need something to wear them out and really occupy them?

Simplifying this.

I often say to my 8 year old. “In five minutes let’s get our pjs on ok?”
He often replies (quite politely) “no thanks.”
Like it’s an option. I keep having to remind d myself to say “in 5 minutes we’re getting our Pjs on.” Less optional & more firm.
Maybe try that.
We also use reward charts & a countdown if he’s not listening well. So points of he gets dressed when we first ask him & a warning about points if we need to ask more than once.

Sorry if I sound harsh but he sounds like a absolute little horror, the nasty spoilt kid at school.
He wasn’t born like this so do something about it now and I would suggest enrolling him for football, boxing, swimming , or the performing arts , dance and drama but he needs to have hobbies.

Gets a reaction from you, doesn't it?

Is his name Henry?