Why does he act so horrid?

[Thereoncewasahorridmama]

DS was pulling grass up to throw at Daddy, all fine. Then he pulled up my leafy plants. I told him off and explained they grow flowers that feed the bees and butterflies and they'll get hungry and we don't want that do we.
He tells me he DOES want that
So I ask how he'd feel if someone took away his food so he was hungry?
He says he's like that (he's a terrible eater)
So I ask of he'd like to have a grumbly hungry tummy and to get so tired he'd have to be in bed every day (he's hyper and never still so he'd hate to be stuck in bed)
He said yes, that's exactly what he wants.

He does it with other stuff. He'll shout and wake the babies. I'll tell him off and tell him the babies will cry and be sad if they don't get sleep
He'll say good, he likes it when they cry.

He's nearly 6. He's lovely. He adores the babies. He always offers to give away his toy if he gets a duplicate (say McDonalds etc).

So why is he so oppositional? And I find it really triggering so we get into debates like the flower one. It normally ends with me saying I don't believe him because I know he's a nice boy etc, or me telling him to go and sit away from me if he's going to be so horrid (for example making the babies sad)

I just don't understand why he says it. He also never wants to do to school and doesn't want to do anything when he's older except sit on the sofa.

I know it's something I'm doing but I don't know how to fix it. I've pointed out other people might believe it and this he IS horrid but he doesn't seem to care

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

Just tell him NO! FGS. He’s old enough to understand. No arguments. If he does it again anyway, sanctions. No sweets or TV or whatever. From what you said first I thought you were talking about a 2 or 3 year old.

Ha, I wish he'd been this verbal at 3!!

@RobertaSloth thanks, I'll take a look. I do recognise that the issue is primarily with me

Thanks @GalesThisMorning

@UseMyName no one thinks so, there's some other stuff going on but it gets bogged down so I didn't get into it. He's being seen by someone for help with his eating (lifetime battle) and his emotions.

You're goading him into an argument and allowing him to set his own boundaries. Tell him what you expect of him, don't allow him to dictate what is acceptable and what isn't.

Do you often have positive, simple and fun conversations with him, or are they always like this? Maybe just back off a bit

I can't pass by the "his 5" comment... Seriously?

He is 5. He's 5.

@Thereoncewasahorridmama Would you go for counselling to get to the bottom of why you interact with him the way you do?

@GravityFalls

Well, he clearly doesn’t want to go hungry or hear the babies crying, and he’s only saying it to get a rise out of you so my response would be a very curt “what a silly thing to say!” and then accept no further comment on the issue. Because he feels he can get the last word, he’s driven to try and get it no matter how outlandish the comment. You need to snip it off before that point. He’s 6, he doesn’t have that power and he can’t handle having it.

This is what I need taped to a mirror I think.

@IDontWantToAdultToday thank you.

Very true @Bluntness100

@lightand because he has an aversion to do anything quietly? So he'll go to the loo but do so loudly, which wakes them up. If I fall into the rabbit hole of why it's because he wants them to come and play. He likes it when they cry (which presses my buttons because I keep thinking well does he mean it or not?)

Two tips -

Focus on what you want him to do, rather than what you don't want him to do e.g. "leave the plants alone" is better than "stop pulling the plants"

And focus on actions and (immediate) consequences eg "you're spoiling my nice garden so we will have to go inside now". Better than random punishments eg no TV tonight

he's nearly 6

Don't negotiate with your kid's. Tell them firmly no, a short reason why, at that age no one gives a shit about butterfly's, especially boys. Say because you're ruining the garden and I've said don't do it and leave it at that.

As for the waking up his siblings punish him. I'd be livid if my youngest had this little regard for what I say and their impact on others.

@Butchyrestingface

I have totally missed the point of this thread (apologies) obsessing over whether anyone actually uses the word 'horrid' these days?

😂 yes it's clearly made its way into working class Midlander speak

You are not a bad mother. I do think though you are falling prey to the very modern and short-sighted phenomenon of allowing children to do and decide things when it isn't their job.

Agree with this.
He is 6, he knows its naughty, hes not 2 .
Also so what if he whines?
Just ignore, dont react to it.
The more you react, the more he will do it.

Waking the babies on purpose = consequences.
Make screen time something he earns not a given.

Sorry op, but you remind me of my husband. There's few things than get on my fucking nerves more than him trying to out-debate our 5 year old with his longwinded, hot-air, waffley, whiney bollocks, instead if being short and firm. It's like he needs a 'win' against the child whilst also giving a know-it-all lecture, and speaks to him like a naughty teen who's being deliberately deviant rather than a 5 year old who needs short and clear instructions.

The amount of time 'he's 5, please give it a rest' has left my mouth.....

I made the mistake of reasoning with my son, he got the idea that if he won the argument he could do what he wanted, so although I still gave a reason for doing or not doing something, if he argued I would just tell him that I had given him the reason and there was to be no more discussion!

@thisplaceisweird

I can't pass by the "his 5" comment... Seriously?

He is 5. He's 5.

Oh do shut up. Ever heard of auto-correct?

Watch or read some of Mandy Saligari’s stuff. She is a therapist and talks a lot about this type of situation, especially when as the parent you find yourself taking a victim stance too “it’s my fault” etc.

It seems you are talking to him like a toddler, then being surprised when he acts like one.

I don’t like punishments, I think they just build
resentment especially with children who already feel the world is against them.

If he’s struggling with getting attention, why not let him plant his own bit of garden he can do whatever he likes with? You can buy tomato and strawberry plants everywhere just now, they’re about £2 in Asda. Or buy some seed bombs and take him for a walk and let him Chuck them somewhere for the bees. That’s positive, constructive parenting.

If he’s good at school he may be attention seeking at home. I see you state “wake the babies “ plural. Sounds like there’s been a huge change in his home life?

There’s a reason my parents generation often said “because I said so!”. Getting into a debate with long winded explanations doesn’t work on young children. Firm no. Quick reason why if he asks. Sometimes a simple “because it’s not nice” will do. Stop letting him draw you into debates.

@DumplingsAndStew

It seems you are talking to him like a toddler, then being surprised when he acts like one.

Is explaining the reason we don't kill plants or wake up sleeping babies treating him like a toddler? Would you expect a 5 yo to intrinsically understand why we don't do those things? The flowers were leafy greens so not sure he'd even realised they were flowers as such

@jendifer thanks I'll take a look

@Bluntness100

If he’s good at school he may be attention seeking at home. I see you state “wake the babies “ plural. Sounds like there’s been a huge change in his home life?

We had twins not long before the apocalypse began

You are pandering to him by getting into a debate. Simple “do not pull out the plants”. Don’t ask him not to do something. Tell him. They need clear rules at this age.

he's FIVE - stop being so precious and just tell him off - he doesn't need to say sorry to the bloody bees and butterflies

You don;t mention other kids so I am guessing he's had 5 years of you and dad and him - then suddenly two tiny crying things have taken you both away from him - he's bound to act out - blimey - to be honest I'd get frustrated with your airy fairy waffling explanations and I'm 51!

Firstly he asn't got a fully developed sense of empathy yet. If he can't see it he'll struggle to empathise with it. Secondly he's probably just testing the boundaries and enjoying getting a reaction. He wants to assert himself.

He was told off @ghostyslovesheets but I want him to understand why so he makes decisions not to do it in the future.

He’s just being contrary, you say don’t do x because y and then he says he likes y

Stop getting into these debates, say don’t do x
No need to tell him why not when it’s going to lead to a silly debating game that he thinks he can win