to believe the Mumsnet High Earners?

[LigPatin]

Every time there's a thread about earnings, there's always multiple posters who claim that most people on the thread must be inflating or plain lying about their salaries.

Whilst I recognise that people lie, especially on anonymous forums, I find it quite sad that people prefer to dismiss these posts as lies rather than take inspiration/education from them (or just not care).

I come from a poor background - we never had enough money to the point that food and electricity use was rationed. We weren't on the streets, but that was a looming possibility. We lived (mostly) within the midlands.

I fell into nannying as a career (having dreamed of being a primary school teacher) and my first job was in Kensington. The housekeeper had been gossiping about the rent on the house we worked in - it was £3k a WEEK. This was 2012-ish. I remember wondering how on Earth anyone could afford paying £200k+ a year on rent alone, when - in my mind - earning just £50k was amazingly rich.

I remember walking through Kensington and Knightsbridge and Chelsea and seeing thousands and thousands and thousands of these houses, all huge and grand and all presumably commanding similar rent or sale value than the one I worked in. They were all clearly lived in and used.

Perhaps it was arrogance, or naivety, but I figured that if there were enough people who could afford to pay £1k, £2k, £5k+ a week on rent (or buy million pound houses), then there must be a lot of money out there to be earned, and I couldn't see any reason as to why I couldn't find a way to get a share of that money.

That's sort of how I feel about these earning threads - hundreds of people are posting about their high salaries and instead of scoffing that they must be sad-sacks who hang out on Mumsnet to lie about their lifestyles - I think it's inspiring and encouraging to see so many women out there making amazing money and securing their futures.

FWIW - I was 21 back in Kensington, amazed at the £3k a week rent. I'm coming up to 30 now and my average yearly income is about £120k. I remind myself every day of how lucky I am, and how 21 year old me would have been incredulous. Though I'm, of course, absolutely nowhere near being able to rent a £3k a week house

OoPourUsACupLove has it absolutely right. If all the power is on the side of the employer, who knows what they pay, then the job applicant should know that too. And to ask for a salary that reflects the value of the job.

Dh has an office manager in our small engineering company in CowTown. She earns the same per hour as the skilled engineers, and the same bonus. The job could have been advertised at NMW in school hours only and there would still have been a sack full of applications.

My dh is a fairly high earner...he doesn't even have a degree. Last year he earned 79k excluding his bonus. Not all high earners are degree holders.

PegPeople, then you may be in my rural area, which people don't like to leave because it's beautiful. There are undoubtedly graduates bashing tills and doing jobs below their intellectual level. But (gulp) lots of them did degrees in subjects they were passionate about for which there is little application. A friend's child is an historian, and is struggling to find a slot as an unpaid intern, because there are simply too many history graduates. And now, as a consequence, far too many unemployed history teachers. Some subjects are best regarded as fasciinating hobbies.

This thread

1. I think more women need to talk about their high salaries and how they got there, so that other women / girls can understand career options
2. I have personally found that the more senior I am, the more time I have to be on mnet/ surf the web. Why? Because it’s up to me how I spend my day. No one is dictating how I spend my hours/ days, I’m there to deliver results. I can be in the gym (now opened) at any time of day. I block my time and I make it up, if I’m dealing with different time zones I can be on calls at 6am or 9pm.
3. I still see my children/ family and can take holidays (am on holiday this week).
4. for people asking where the money is? It’s been mentioned a few times on this thread. Tech is ridiculously well paid, especially sales roles and especially in companies where stock options/ equity is also given. Plenty of mid level sales people earn in excess of £100k. Although whomever said it’s a good sector as stress is low? Tech is experiencing the highest levels of stress/ burnout claims of all industries. They pay well, but they get their pound of flesh IME.
5. with the push on equality at senior levels, we should see more women at these salaries.

Do I think high paid workers work harder than those on lower salaries? Not one bit. My best friend does the most amazing job and I admire her huge amounts. She is not motivated one bit by money and is here to make a difference.
Me? I sold my soul to the devil (as a salesperson) and moved into a sector about 8 years ago that I thought would be the future (tech). And I was right. Bit of luck, but of right place right time, some amazing mentors and coaches. And I’ve taken risks.

More women should talk about it (and be believed)

FWIW, I don't really see 5 GCSEs in random subjects as qualifications. Maths, English, Science, an MFL and a humanities subject, yes. But Art, Food Tech, childcare, beauty therapy and dance... probably not.

@LolaSmiles

PegasusReturns I agree with you, but there is a difference between a thread where people are discussing their areas of work, salaries, career development etc and the sort of silly "oh no, how will I manage on a 6 figure income?" / "AIBU to think that anyone can earn £100k if they work hard enough" threads with a healthy dose of "you're obviously so jealous of me" if anyone points out the fairly silly nature of the claims.

@LolaSmilesDon’t really remember the braggy threads but there was one around recently asking for a ‘goal salary and another one for high earning women(or high earning careers I don’t remember) In both cases the point was about salary but along came posters to blag on about ‘high earners being privileged’ and accuse them of lying. I suppose that’s the OP’s point. Growing up I never knew that people could even make such money until I went to uni. And then I didn’t think this was possible for me until I saw other people do it. If you have your heart set on a certain profession that doesn’t pay very well fair enough - and as all of these jobs are valuable all of them should pay enough to live on (the fact that some like carers are underpaid is a shame). But if you want lots of money - there are opportunities for a fair amount of the population. The problem is that these aren’t publicised and lots of people don’t know. So the people who end up going into them are those children of high earners already in the profession and similar. And being surrounded by people like posters on here , with their disbelief that people could be paid so much is the BEST way to ensure that people are trampled down, stay within their class boundaries and never ever dare to succeed. Way to go for equality of opportunity!

PegPeople, then you may be in my rural area, which people don't like to leave because it's beautiful.

About as far from rural as you could get. I dont think it's actually that uncommon for lots of people of all ages and with a whole host of qualifications to look for work somewhere like a supermarket and I think that will only become more common due to job losses from covid. I certainly don't think it's limited to rural graduates who undertook degrees based on their passions.

Sometimes what a person earns depends on what he/she is prepared to do for money. My skills are for sale, but not necessarily to the highest bidder. Integrity can come into it, or where you are prepared/not prepared to live. Job satisfaction is also important. I have dropped income for reasons which were important to me and which involved a bit of financial struggle. I'm sure a fair few mumsnetters do have really big disposable incomes and it's always interesting to hear of other people's choices and whether or not they are satisfied with them. I am sometimes satisfied with my own choices and sometimes not. It only becomes a bit of a bore on here when it becomes a bit competitive.

@Ridgere

What is the actual basis for this statement?

Logic? OP said people should be inspired rather than complaining about people lying. But if someone thinks people are lying, they're obviously not going to be inspired are they!

Answer the question - what is your basis for asserting that people are lying? Or did you just make that up?

COVID will change the world, but who knows how. Ask me in five years and I'll give you a properly considered answer based on experience, reading and personal observations.

Not all businesses have bombed during COVID; many have done okay, and a few have boomed. Did you buy shares in Zoom before February 2020? Some did. Sadly not me!

OP I just want to know what job you’re on that nets you £120k a year!

YANBU. My DH earns similar to you so I know at least some of us on these threads aren’t making it up!

Well done to you for doing so well from a tough background. It’s very hard to do well in our class ridden society, especially if you don’t come from a privileged background to start off with, which makes your achievement all the more impressive.

Tons of industries have boomed

1. tech (most of it especially the IAAS/ SAAS sector)
2. finance - the amount of corporate debt restructuring has meant it was great year for certain areas of banking (although that’s been kept very quiet).
3. healthcare/ life sciences - for obvious reasons
4. the big 5 consultancies - consultancy work went through the roof - covid/ brexit/ US election
5. lawyers - working ridiculous hours - across corporate & family (for sure), other sectors I don’t know.

That’s just off the top of my head.

I’m a COO. I earn over £90K (just checked my payslip). I could probably double that (I was headhunted last year) but I’m quite happy where I am. I split my time between London and another European country, and enjoy this. DH earns around £35K, but he has always been able to work remotely, which has been a big plus for us. I don’t have a degree, but I started out as a graduate trainee (they took on me as an experiment!), and have done a range of jobs from NGO/charity to international organisations. I’ve always taken a “male” approach to jobs - if I tick half the boxes, and reckon I can do it, then I’ll apply, and most of the time I’ll get an interview.

Like a previous poster, we’re quite frugal - we paid off the mortgage early, and tend to save quite a lot. We don’t do expensive holidays or drive a flash car. The DC went to boarding school for a bit, and we’re now paying for their accommodation at university. We give quite a bit to charity. We’re quite comfortable.

@LizBennet

I’ve looked 5 times for the point and I’m still missing it 🤷🏼‍♀️

Come on - it's right there in front of you. The point is that the OP earns 120k.

I could be in a minority of one Vesta, but I don't believe we're class ridden anymore. Yes there are advantages to growing up understanding the roolz, but we are more than ever a meritocracy. If you are any good, then you prove it.

And Google anything uncertain.

@XingMing

I could be in a minority of one Vesta, but I don't believe we're class ridden anymore. Yes there are advantages to growing up understanding the roolz, but we are more than ever a meritocracy. If you are any good, then you prove it.

Was that tongue in cheek?

I think it’s really easy to lose sight of your own personal bubble: my family’s income seems completely normal to (puts us in top 2% of income & higher when our total assets are taken into account). But everyone I know has at least an undergrad degree, most have masters and a lot have PhD +. We all graduated from Oxford/Imperial/the LSE etc. because that’s where we met each other. Everyone owns their home & most of the homes are worth close to, if not more than a million. But DH & I grew up in similar circumstances. It’s easy to feel incredulous than anyone earns substantially less than we do. I mean, through no deliberate intention, I don’t know any of them, so there can’t be that many right? Wrong obviously.

It’s easy to see how if your bubble was people earning £20-£30k you would disbelieve all these high earners.

@XingMing

I could be in a minority of one Vesta, but I don't believe we're class ridden anymore. Yes there are advantages to growing up understanding the roolz, but we are more than ever a meritocracy. If you are any good, then you prove it.

The disadvantages of class are more insidious - being told that things are not for ‘your people’ for example. But all fixable with a good school (and then trade or uni). There’s no need to ‘hobnob’ with the right people to get a foot in the door for example if all you want is a high paying job. People in less meritocratic industries like media and the arts (music, dance acting etc) might still face barriers however.

No, not tongue in cheek, Vesta. Even with the built in advantages that any well educated MC child has, there is much more acceptance of POC in the media and professions for example. Have you looked at the BBC recently? The people I was at school with in my teens who were refugees from Uganda: their children are doing really well in the professions. However, that population (and Chinese people) were hounded out of Uganda for being more successful professionally and commercially than the native Ugandans. Tiger parenting, pushing for effort, pays dividends.

This thread shows a few things, that the OP has been proved right very quickly by the replies she received. That lots of people don’t care about what people earn, or threads like these, yet open it read all the posts and the post - strange saying of showing you don’t care. That some people are so bitter about others high earners status. That many people have very limited imagination and cannot comprehend high earners.

@Happyhappyday you make some good points. Don’t want to derail the thread but you made me think of those under 35 years old or so who have that same education background and careers but they can’t afford the million pound houses now or a similar lifestyle as they haven’t made as much money on their first homes and have way more debt... will be interesting to see a huge dynamic shift in those younger but in the same job roles

The media, arts, theatre and ballet are the most meritocratic of any, because only talent talks. Of all the fields you could have focused on, you've chosen fields in which, in any generation, many aspire and only 0.5% succeed. It's like choosing football as a comparison; millions aspire, but a tiny number have the genius.

A friend is the son of a huge star, and sadly inherited only a fraction of his talent and his personality. He got a start in the world thanks to connections, but his talent wasn't enough to build a career.

The handful of women I know who earn £100k plus (including my sister) really don't have the time to hang around on mumsnet!

This thread is pretty depressing to read if you’re on long term sickness benefits and know that you’ve got no hope of ever ‘making it’, despite being ambitious, driven, motivated, hard working etc. Life seems so unfair sometimes.