to believe the Mumsnet High Earners?

[LigPatin]

Every time there's a thread about earnings, there's always multiple posters who claim that most people on the thread must be inflating or plain lying about their salaries.

Whilst I recognise that people lie, especially on anonymous forums, I find it quite sad that people prefer to dismiss these posts as lies rather than take inspiration/education from them (or just not care).

I come from a poor background - we never had enough money to the point that food and electricity use was rationed. We weren't on the streets, but that was a looming possibility. We lived (mostly) within the midlands.

I fell into nannying as a career (having dreamed of being a primary school teacher) and my first job was in Kensington. The housekeeper had been gossiping about the rent on the house we worked in - it was £3k a WEEK. This was 2012-ish. I remember wondering how on Earth anyone could afford paying £200k+ a year on rent alone, when - in my mind - earning just £50k was amazingly rich.

I remember walking through Kensington and Knightsbridge and Chelsea and seeing thousands and thousands and thousands of these houses, all huge and grand and all presumably commanding similar rent or sale value than the one I worked in. They were all clearly lived in and used.

Perhaps it was arrogance, or naivety, but I figured that if there were enough people who could afford to pay £1k, £2k, £5k+ a week on rent (or buy million pound houses), then there must be a lot of money out there to be earned, and I couldn't see any reason as to why I couldn't find a way to get a share of that money.

That's sort of how I feel about these earning threads - hundreds of people are posting about their high salaries and instead of scoffing that they must be sad-sacks who hang out on Mumsnet to lie about their lifestyles - I think it's inspiring and encouraging to see so many women out there making amazing money and securing their futures.

FWIW - I was 21 back in Kensington, amazed at the £3k a week rent. I'm coming up to 30 now and my average yearly income is about £120k. I remind myself every day of how lucky I am, and how 21 year old me would have been incredulous. Though I'm, of course, absolutely nowhere near being able to rent a £3k a week house

I’m a tax accountant so see salary’s day in day out and high earning women are common enough - especially partners/solicitors/IT professionals. I am in Northern Ireland where salaries are typically lower too.

I don't really understand why people, on an anonymous site, want to talk about how much they earn.

Because the more information people have, the better decisions they make. And I want people, even people I've never met on the internet, to make good decisions for themselves and their families.

It's markets 101 that asymmetric information (where one side of a trade knows more than the other) is bad for the person who does not have as much information. In the case of employment that is the employer, because they know the salary of everyone they employ and you only know yours.

If you ask for more than market rate because you don't know what everyone else earns would you get it? No, because the employer knows they can get someone else for less.

If you ask for less than market rate because you don't know what everyone would you get it? Hell yes! The employer knows other people get paid more yet for some reason they don't say "Oh dear, that's a lot less than we thought we'd have to pay, would you accept more?"

The culture of secrecy around salaries is only benefitting employers.

@evelynina

It's a British thing not to discuss money/salaries it's very normal in other cultures to discuss it.

So not just a British thing! I can think of plenty of culture where is just as crass to discuss it.

@evelynina

It's a British thing not to discuss money/salaries it's very normal in other cultures to discuss it.

I'm not British .

If you ask for more than market rate because you don't know what everyone else earns would you get it? No, because the employer knows they can get someone else for less.

depends on the job, depends on the candidate.
Some people get a lot more than market rate. Depends what value they bring.

Out of all the people on here who say they earn £100k+ I imagine around 2% are being truthful.

Joinedjustforthispost

Yes I agree with you

@wesowereonabreak

If you ask for more than market rate because you don't know what everyone else earns would you get it? No, because the employer knows they can get someone else for less.

depends on the job, depends on the candidate.
Some people get a lot more than market rate. Depends what value they bring.

You miss the point. In that scenario the employer can't get someone else equivalent for less. So the market rate for that individual person/skillset is higher. But it's still set with reference to everyone else, which is information the employer always has, and information the employee only has if someone else tells them.

That's sort of how I feel about these earning threads - hundreds of people are posting about their high salaries and instead of scoffing that they must be sad-sacks who hang out on Mumsnet to lie about their lifestyles - I think it's inspiring and encouraging to see so many women out there making amazing money and securing their futures

But how can you be inspired and encouraged by something if it's not true?

@evelynina,

I think the U.S culture is the main one where it is more normal to discuss earnings. But, even then, that might be with colleagues or, maybe (crassly) on a date.

I don’t think there are any cultures where it would be normal to go into an average bar in an average area and start talking loudly how hard it is to live on, say, £200k.

But that is what a lot of these threads amount to.

It is just crass, no other word for it.

The lack of aspiration of some of the posters in this thread is disappointing and I find it strange that it's mostly women here assuming that other women must be lying just because they make good money. If we were men on a male oriented forum I doubt anyone would blink an eye. There are always going to be fantasists on any forum, but there's no reason why women can't be earning the amounts alluded to AND living a balanced lifestyle with time for posting on Mumsnet too.
Given that the some posters claiming to have high incomes seem to think that everyone should aspire to be them, they earn lots because they work hard, anyone could be in their position if they worked hard etc etc etc, it's fairly reasonable that some people call bullshit.
It's hard to believe that people who are apparently clever enough to be in high flying careers are dim enough to not understand that there's a huge range of professions that won't come close to paying the sort of salaries they claim to be earning, and it's not as simple as work hard and earn £100k+ a year.

People also rightly call out the faux naive posts about how things are ever so tight on a household income of £150k, they simply don't know if they can afford to have children.

Unfortunately some people seem to think that ambition is linked to how many 0s are on your pay cheque and feel like the world should be full of awe and admiration for them. The arrogance is so astounding that anything other than fawning gets turned round into people lacking ambition and being jealous because they can't comprehend that anyone might challenge their very narrow worldview.

@Ridgere

That's sort of how I feel about these earning threads - hundreds of people are posting about their high salaries and instead of scoffing that they must be sad-sacks who hang out on Mumsnet to lie about their lifestyles - I think it's inspiring and encouraging to see so many women out there making amazing money and securing their futures

But how can you be inspired and encouraged by something if it's not true?

Can't speak for others, but I'm true. And most of my ex colleagues (in one of the industries mentioned a number of times up thread) would be earning over £100k, some a number of times that. And I know at least a few on MN.

However, many have the same amount of disbelief about low to middle.earners. I grew up in a poor family so still have family and friends barely scraping by on benefits and NMW jobs. Most people I went to uni with do not, and they marvel at how anyone can survive in London on under £60k household income, for example. People tend to have their view really set by their own bubble.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@evelynina,

I think the U.S culture is the main one where it is more normal to discuss earnings. But, even then, that might be with colleagues or, maybe (crassly) on a date.

I don’t think there are any cultures where it would be normal to go into an average bar in an average area and start talking loudly how hard it is to live on, say, £200k.

But that is what a lot of these threads amount to.

It is just crass, no other word for it.[/quote]
Really? You see, I think "helpful" is another word for it, and indeed a better word for it than "crass".

There is literally no downside whatsoever to giving people more financial information. No one loses anything by reading this thread and some people might gain by it.

And if you personally don't find it helpful, remember no one is forcing you to read it and offend your delicate sensibilities.

"Oh but my dear that thread on Mumsnet about salaries! It was so crass!. I had to read it twice just to be sure!"

Can't speak for others, but I'm true

Oh, well that settles it. I'm now fully inspired and encouraged.

For some women information about potential salaries and packages will be useful. It allows them to make informed decisions empowered by knowledge that can be difficult to come by.

There have been some really good threads about those topics in the past - although they do have a tendency to get highjacked by the “how crass” crowd.

If you’re not in need of that information, you could choose to ignore or you could go on the attack and accuse people of lying / bragging.

I think that latter decision says more about a poster than deciding to post about money in the first place.

@Ridgere

That's sort of how I feel about these earning threads - hundreds of people are posting about their high salaries and instead of scoffing that they must be sad-sacks who hang out on Mumsnet to lie about their lifestyles - I think it's inspiring and encouraging to see so many women out there making amazing money and securing their futures

But how can you be inspired and encouraged by something if it's not true?

What is the actual basis for this statement?

PegasusReturns
I agree with you, but there is a difference between a thread where people are discussing their areas of work, salaries, career development etc and the sort of silly "oh no, how will I manage on a 6 figure income?" / "AIBU to think that anyone can earn £100k if they work hard enough" threads with a healthy dose of "you're obviously so jealous of me" if anyone points out the fairly silly nature of the claims.

I think it is sad that so many women limit themselves. A lot of responses on this thread seem to be written by people who are bitter about their own life choices. Apart from in a limited number of areas (NGOs, education etc), skill, knowledge and experience are appropriately rewarded. Why is this so impossible to understand?

@LolaSmiles,

I totally agree with you.

I am not sure a generalist parenting site is a useful place for getting genuine information about what you are worth in the workplace.

What is the actual basis for this statement?

Logic? OP said people should be inspired rather than complaining about people lying. But if someone thinks people are lying, they're obviously not going to be inspired are they!

TheReluctantPhoenix
Me neither, though it could be a good place to be signposted to places to build a professional network, find coaches, get more information.

It's also a good place to hear about social issues that affect women's careers.

But I don't buy the idea that some of the posters saying "I earn loads... work hard and be like me... it's so tough thinking about having children, £80k a year isn't enough really. . . You're so jealous of me... does it make you feel bitter to see people doing well... everyone else could be like me if they worked hard... it's so sad that people lack ambition (because they've not gone into high paying lines of work)" and so on, are doing it to help women realise their worth. They're just spouting off and it's hard to believe that people earning that much as so dim to realise that many professions that require hard work won't pay the salaries that they claim everyone can get.

So wait what's the job?

Whether people are lying or not seems redundant anyway. Presumably some replies are true and some are not. And if someone replies saying "I'm a partner at a law firm and I earn 130k a year", does it even matter if they really are or not? We already know lawyers exist and that they get paid well.

I don't read any of that in this thread Joinedjustforthis post. The vast majority of people claiming high earnings here have taken time to explain how and what they have done to achieve their earning power, and the key point for me, having read along, is that they decided they would take control, have a career plan, and choose fields in which progress and success was possible. Which is much less likely for a person with no qualifications who thumps a till. I hope it is still possible for that person to get ahead and move up, but to do so will require she or he to be open to relocation, and further study just to get in the zone to be considered. Or said person can stay stuck in CowTown lamenting the lack of local work that pays £100k per annum.

Which is much less likely for a person with no qualifications who thumps a till.

I don't know if it's the same in most places but around here I would be amazed if most people working on a till in a supermarket for example had no qualifications. It's notoriously difficult to get through to interview stages even if you have qualifications.