to believe the Mumsnet High Earners?

[LigPatin]

Every time there's a thread about earnings, there's always multiple posters who claim that most people on the thread must be inflating or plain lying about their salaries.

Whilst I recognise that people lie, especially on anonymous forums, I find it quite sad that people prefer to dismiss these posts as lies rather than take inspiration/education from them (or just not care).

I come from a poor background - we never had enough money to the point that food and electricity use was rationed. We weren't on the streets, but that was a looming possibility. We lived (mostly) within the midlands.

I fell into nannying as a career (having dreamed of being a primary school teacher) and my first job was in Kensington. The housekeeper had been gossiping about the rent on the house we worked in - it was £3k a WEEK. This was 2012-ish. I remember wondering how on Earth anyone could afford paying £200k+ a year on rent alone, when - in my mind - earning just £50k was amazingly rich.

I remember walking through Kensington and Knightsbridge and Chelsea and seeing thousands and thousands and thousands of these houses, all huge and grand and all presumably commanding similar rent or sale value than the one I worked in. They were all clearly lived in and used.

Perhaps it was arrogance, or naivety, but I figured that if there were enough people who could afford to pay £1k, £2k, £5k+ a week on rent (or buy million pound houses), then there must be a lot of money out there to be earned, and I couldn't see any reason as to why I couldn't find a way to get a share of that money.

That's sort of how I feel about these earning threads - hundreds of people are posting about their high salaries and instead of scoffing that they must be sad-sacks who hang out on Mumsnet to lie about their lifestyles - I think it's inspiring and encouraging to see so many women out there making amazing money and securing their futures.

FWIW - I was 21 back in Kensington, amazed at the £3k a week rent. I'm coming up to 30 now and my average yearly income is about £120k. I remind myself every day of how lucky I am, and how 21 year old me would have been incredulous. Though I'm, of course, absolutely nowhere near being able to rent a £3k a week house

TheLastLotus
But the OP is on about the fact people should be inspired by anonymous people talking about their salaries.
Why should anyone be inspired by anonymous people online claiming to have high salaries, especially when some of them (across a range of threads) seem to be selectively ignorant of wider society?

For example i don't doubt there's very high earners, but I do doubt how many people on here claim to be high earners whilst appearing quite dim about the reality of income and wealth disparities in the UK. I find it hard to believe that anyone smart enough to hold a senior position in high paying industries is as silly enough to believe that all it takes is to work hard and anyone can earn large salaries.

The attitude of some women on here is quite concerning especially if they are raising daughters. To have such little belief and confidence that women so many women can high earners and that high earners are not tied to their computer all day. With attitudes like these, mothers will raise the next generation of women with the same attitudes.
Also, many falling over themselves to say that they are happy to be lower earners because money isn’t everything and they’d rather be happy. Do you think all these high earning women posting on here are too stupid, vacuous or artificial that they sold their soul for a high salary? Do you think that they chose a high income over happiness? Do you think that it makes you virtuous to add this unnecessary line about happiness? Is a high income mutually exclusive with happiness? Raise your standards folks, women don’t have to choose between a high income and happiness - whatever that word means to you.

@XingMing

The media, arts, theatre and ballet are the most meritocratic of any, because only talent talks. Of all the fields you could have focused on, you've chosen fields in which, in any generation, many aspire and only 0.5% succeed. It's like choosing football as a comparison; millions aspire, but a tiny number have the genius.

A friend is the son of a huge star, and sadly inherited only a fraction of his talent and his personality. He got a start in the world thanks to connections, but his talent wasn't enough to build a career.

That’s not true. Those who succeed aren’t necessarily ‘more talented’ than their failed peers. For example more juicy acting roles are available if you’re a person of a certain type. How many physically unattractive or disabled people do you see as A-listers compared to ones that fit the mould? And excellent singers are not uncommon. But not all of them can get a ‘big break’ , get given songs written by professionals to sing, professional audio engineers, marketing etc.

Contrast this with fields like technology - the main judging criteria is your ability to do the job.

The world doesn’t need a huge number of singers and actors and ballet dancers + these things are hard to enter later in life - so you have the small pool fortunate enough to get in early and then an even smaller pool who actually make it.
But the world DOES need a lot of it people in other professions... and a larger number of people are capable of entering at various life stages so I’d say they are more meritocratic.

Sorry to have derailed thread 😂

And yet more people falling over themselves to say that high earners don’t work harder than those earning less. Who said they do? Why repeat this point like some sort of defensive?
They may not work harder, but it’s a combination of risk taking, saying yes to challenges that feel impossible at the time, being able to apply yourself and your mind to challenging tasks with resilience, and dollop of right place, right time. But right place, right time means nothing if you don’t do all the former.

@sst1234

And yet more people falling over themselves to say that high earners don’t work harder than those earning less. Who said they do? Why repeat this point like some sort of defensive? They may not work harder, but it’s a combination of risk taking, saying yes to challenges that feel impossible at the time, being able to apply yourself and your mind to challenging tasks with resilience, and dollop of right place, right time. But right place, right time means nothing if you don’t do all the former.

Yes, this is all true about risk taking, challenges, etc. -- I just don't see it as anything particularly special when I do it, if you see what I mean.

@diamondpony80 absolutely! I was given absolutely awful career advice at school. It was a horrible old fashioned school in a small town and I think the teachers just assumed we'd all get married and our husbands would be the breadwinner. I was told 'just do what you love' - absolutely terrible advice which had me living in poverty until I was over 30. It's easy for people to say 'well why didn't you research it yourself' but I didn't even have the internet at home until right before I went to university, let alone choosing GCSE and A Level subjects. And like others have mentioned, you can't aim for a career if you don't know it exists.

I wish we did all talk about money more. I wish we did normalise talking about salaries and careers. I wish someone had been frank with me as a teenager and told me that as someone from a working class background, I would have to get into something lucrative if I ever wanted financial stability and independence. I couldn't rely on inheritance and gifted house deposits like others could. The fact is that being poor is miserable and limiting. It's far easier to get trapped in a bad or abusive relationship if you can't afford to leave. I wish people would take career advice, particularly for girls, a lot more seriously.

@LolaSmiles

TheLastLotus But the OP is on about the fact people should be inspired by anonymous people talking about their salaries. Why should anyone be inspired by anonymous people online claiming to have high salaries, especially when some of them (across a range of threads) seem to be selectively ignorant of wider society?

For example i don't doubt there's very high earners, but I do doubt how many people on here claim to be high earners whilst appearing quite dim about the reality of income and wealth disparities in the UK. I find it hard to believe that anyone smart enough to hold a senior position in high paying industries is as silly enough to believe that all it takes is to work hard and anyone can earn large salaries.

I believe the OP’s choice of words (with ‘not care’ in brackets next to inspired) didn’t do her any favours.

Yes hard work is not enough - as previously mentioned cleaners , nurses care home workers etc all work hard but don’t earn loads.

The question is - can anybody who set out to plan their career with the deliberate aim of making as much money as possible, succeed?

The answer is not everyone - but a larger amount of people than we currently think possible.

Some people are lucky enough to be gifted in a field that makes a lot of money. Equally a lot of people choose professions like accounting/finance , or project management - they neither love nor hate it, but it makes money.
On an individual level if someone was willing to think this way - and given the opportunity they could suceed. Of course this is harder if you’re already for example 30 and on minimum wage with a family compared to a bright eyed young graduate.

However loads of people think this is impossible and to earn lots of money you have to sell your soul doing something you absolutely hate. Or that high earning professions are only for a certain class of people.

I don’t deny that some people can’t see past the end of their own nose and wonder why everyone can’t get a high paying jobs. But the same also applies at the other end - people wondering how other people get high paying jobs. And the worse part is raising daughters who also think this way. I for one definitely want more women in my field - I have pushed and participated in advocacy to make opportunities visible to people outside of our normal hiring circle.

Saying that all professions should be decently paid but sadly aren’t ( and people being shocked that you can’t earn loads just by ‘working hard in what you love) is not the same discussion as ‘yes there are high paying professsions and a sizeable number of women in them - is this true or not?’

@Lumene

It's not about other people not being happy about it. Most people do not like arrogance. It's a very ugly trait

OP didn’t come across as arrogant to me. I found the post inspiring and interesting.

The post was fine until.they gloated about their wage, then it became arrogance

TheLastLotus
I agree with you on the career advice. The idea that you'll make your millions doing what you love is obviously terrible advice.

I do see where you're coming from overall. I just really struggle to get on board with posters who claim to be super successful, but come out with sheer garbage that shows they don't understand (or selectively choose to ignore) the fact that not everyone could end up as rich as them, regardless of how hard they work.

We need talented people in a range of roles, not just those who are chasing the next pay rise over and over and over again. Telling people who talk about the reality of the pay ranges/discuss average pay/acknowledge that not everyone can earn 6 figures even if they want to that they should be suitably inspired by high earners is inevitably going to get some people's backs up.

@sst1234

The attitude of some women on here is quite concerning especially if they are raising daughters. To have such little belief and confidence that women so many women can high earners and that high earners are not tied to their computer all day. With attitudes like these, mothers will raise the next generation of women with the same attitudes. Also, many falling over themselves to say that they are happy to be lower earners because money isn’t everything and they’d rather be happy. Do you think all these high earning women posting on here are too stupid, vacuous or artificial that they sold their soul for a high salary? Do you think that they chose a high income over happiness? Do you think that it makes you virtuous to add this unnecessary line about happiness? Is a high income mutually exclusive with happiness? Raise your standards folks, women don’t have to choose between a high income and happiness - whatever that word means to you.

I could not agree more.

I don't see anyone on here thinking that everyone can earn a high salary and most of the people saying they do were freely admitting that there was an element of luck, as well as hard work. I don't think luck alone is very often enough though and I think the hard work normally started at school.

I find these threads depressing, women saying they earn good salaries must automatically be lying.

Awww aspiration, a dream and capitalism is all you need... oh and don’t forget a hefty dose of good luck.

Answer the question - what is your basis for asserting that people are lying? Or did you just make that up?

I didn't say people are lying.

I think you need to re-read the exchange.

@ss1234 - your comment at 23.03 is spot on. If I have a daughter, I would definitely try to provide as much information I can on the wide variety of career opportunities out there that are lucrative. Information is so valuable.

I warn a lot more than what Mumsnet deems possible 😂 I don’t think I have ever specified exactly how much but mentioned I’m a high earner. I have been called a troll for being a young mum who has money.
However I do accept that it is not about me working harder then anyone else. I do work hard / long hours and travel however I also know that I was extremely lucky for a privileged upbringing / support and for doors to have been opened early on that meant I was able to push forward. I know that I was also extremely lucky to have been given a foot in the door and that I was deemed talented and managed to build up a successful reputation - yet there are many talented people who could do what I do that haven’t had the same.

I'm coming up to 30 now and my average yearly income is about £120k.

jtfo

I come from working class routes in the midlands. No one in my family worked in anything close to any of the current high earning jobs. I knew nothing about what I should train as, what career routes were available to me.

I did however know that studying hard was a key to getting out of the life my parents had. And it was. When I got to university it was an immense culture shock. Nearly all the fellow students knew what they were going to do: lawyers/ banking/ medicine/ accountancy and so the list went on.
They had done placements / internships at large corporations in the holidays. I had flipped burgers at McDonald’s.

When your parents are working class, understanding that world is nigh on impossible. When your parents come from that world they have connections, they can open doors, assign mentors to their children..the list is endless.

So parents job roles (even to this day), plays a huge role in choices/ options/ education their children get.

I now regularly mentor young girls and give talks in schools about how kids can have a career in tech. No, you don’t have to code. I don’t write one line of code and still have a very interesting career in tech. I love the field I work in and it’s an absolute bonus that it pays well. It’s incredibly stressful and I am absolutely exhausted come friday most weeks. So does it give me the ideal work/ life balance? No, but I’m ok with that, for now.

I so wish more people
A) believed that women can be in the top 1/2% (and they increasingly are moving into that bracket)
2) celebrated that more...these salaries should not be the domain of one type of individual
3) talked about the how more. I don’t have daughters, but if I did I would be making sure that they knew the full variety of jobs/ careers available to them.

This thread makes me really sad. To see women piling in on women. Horrible actually.
And no, I don’t disclose what I earn in RL to anyone, or advertise my job. For fear of the exact same happening in RL.

Women really need to have a word with themselves

*roots. Lol, stellar education right there.

Whilst things are improving & women have made good progress it's still depressing vs men.

women "account for one in six of the 310,000 taxpayers paid at least £160,000," (2019) so that's only around 50 thousand*

*this is best on people who pay income tax.

based not best!

@XingMing

No, not tongue in cheek, Vesta. Even with the built in advantages that any well educated MC child has, there is much more acceptance of POC in the media and professions for example. Have you looked at the BBC recently? The people I was at school with in my teens who were refugees from Uganda: their children are doing really well in the professions. However, that population (and Chinese people) were hounded out of Uganda for being more successful professionally and commercially than the native Ugandans. Tiger parenting, pushing for effort, pays dividends.

That isn't correct once you get deeper into media. Media studies courses are highly diverse. More of the stars are now diverse.

Mid to higher levels is a sea of white. Journalism and talent rosters are disproportionately from well off families, because most won't earn well at all, especially at the start, so family backup really helps.

Tech is far better.

@LigPatin are you still a nanny?

One thing that is worth bearing in mind is that measuring relative success by salary alone is a very blunt instrument. It means nothing if not related to what it can buy you. So, for example, our joint household income is over 200k pa. However we have to live in London to do our jobs because if the industry we are in. Someone could be doing a very similar role in terms of responsibility and status but in, say, Leeds. The market rate for their job would be lower but that lower salary would buy them the same lifestyle that we have on 200k in London. So it would be the same level of success, if you see what I mean.

I am a high earner. It was a combination of skill (I'm good at a certain academic area), luck (I chose my degree subject because I was interested, it happen to be employable, I've also had certain lucky career breaks e.g. interviewer happens to like me) an hard work (that said I work no harder than a nurse or teacher or many other people who work hard) I guess also selfishness (I could have done a lower paid job that would be more useful to society).

I have no idea how much people lie about their salaries. I have definitely seen some obnoxious posts from high earners pretending to be shocked that not everyone has a huge investment portfolio or is able to simply get a higher paying job through sheer hard work.

Fair play to all the women who are top of their careers, I’m not doubting their are lots of high earners on mn. But with the amount of trolls on this site I take everything with a pinch of salt.