to believe the Mumsnet High Earners?

[LigPatin]

Every time there's a thread about earnings, there's always multiple posters who claim that most people on the thread must be inflating or plain lying about their salaries.

Whilst I recognise that people lie, especially on anonymous forums, I find it quite sad that people prefer to dismiss these posts as lies rather than take inspiration/education from them (or just not care).

I come from a poor background - we never had enough money to the point that food and electricity use was rationed. We weren't on the streets, but that was a looming possibility. We lived (mostly) within the midlands.

I fell into nannying as a career (having dreamed of being a primary school teacher) and my first job was in Kensington. The housekeeper had been gossiping about the rent on the house we worked in - it was £3k a WEEK. This was 2012-ish. I remember wondering how on Earth anyone could afford paying £200k+ a year on rent alone, when - in my mind - earning just £50k was amazingly rich.

I remember walking through Kensington and Knightsbridge and Chelsea and seeing thousands and thousands and thousands of these houses, all huge and grand and all presumably commanding similar rent or sale value than the one I worked in. They were all clearly lived in and used.

Perhaps it was arrogance, or naivety, but I figured that if there were enough people who could afford to pay £1k, £2k, £5k+ a week on rent (or buy million pound houses), then there must be a lot of money out there to be earned, and I couldn't see any reason as to why I couldn't find a way to get a share of that money.

That's sort of how I feel about these earning threads - hundreds of people are posting about their high salaries and instead of scoffing that they must be sad-sacks who hang out on Mumsnet to lie about their lifestyles - I think it's inspiring and encouraging to see so many women out there making amazing money and securing their futures.

FWIW - I was 21 back in Kensington, amazed at the £3k a week rent. I'm coming up to 30 now and my average yearly income is about £120k. I remind myself every day of how lucky I am, and how 21 year old me would have been incredulous. Though I'm, of course, absolutely nowhere near being able to rent a £3k a week house

inneedoflifeadvice

I'm an internal operations director for a medium sized company. I keep things "ticking over" in the departments which are not client facing. I should say also for context I've been in the exact same part of the exact same type of business since i left uni over 20 years ago, so that will be a lot of why I'm paid what I'm paid. Also 2 years ago i did not earn anything close to this kind of money and i thought I'd hit my ceiling, bar the odd inflation rate pay increase. Suddenly my "skill" (i really don't think of it as one!) became central to a few important things that were happening so i was getting more air time and it took off from there.

I'm very much evidence of a large slice of luck being involved with getting to this level. Yes I've worked hard, but no harder than most.

@wesowereonabreak

MrsKoala

You conveniently miss out that you loose personal allowance over £125k...

If you want to pay more tax, no one is stopping you. You can make voluntary donations, why not doing so if you think tax rates should be higher?

Or is it just easier to expect "others" to have a higher tax rate...

I didn’t conveniently miss it out. It’s pretty obvious isn’t it. My point was about the higher rate not being on all the income, like people who are complaining often misrepresent it as.

A few years ago I read about some cultures who don’t have words for or count numbers over a certain amount. Because not all numbers are equal. From 0-1 is a big difference as is 1-2. But 13451 -13452 isn’t so much. Once you have so much you don’t notice a little more or a little less as much as if you had much less. The value of the amount isn’t equal. Ie 10% of £1000 is huge if that’s all you have to live on for 1 month. 10% of £10000 isn’t that same as £9k is still a large monthly income. Not sure if I’ve explained that clearly. I wish I could remember the article it was so interesting.

@MrsKoala and @wesowereonabreak the tax rate of £100k to £123k is 60% with losing the personal allowance. On top of this, once at £100k you lose 15 hours of free childcare, and you lose entitlement to tax free childcare. No child benefit also (although this kicks in earlier).

I’m not saying it’s wrong, because tax needs to be collected, but it’s something people might not be aware of (I wasn’t)

I've never understood people complaining about being taxed more over a certain amount. I know many people who do complain and from when i was a lower tax payer through to being higher i just think what a lovely problem to have. I don't begrudge a penny of it.

😂 I don't think I fancy the tax on earning over 100K a year!

Also would say OP that some of the expensive houses might have been owned a very long time. My Aunty's house in London was like this bought in the 70s then became a fashionable area ended up selling for 3 million.

I do know some people in RL who earn over 100k and technically its feasible for me to do so but I would have to become very senior, do loads of management and be in meetings most of the day which I would hate.

@Aleric

I've never understood people complaining about being taxed more over a certain amount. I know many people who do complain and from when i was a lower tax payer through to being higher i just think what a lovely problem to have. I don't begrudge a penny of it.

I understand it because some people are inherently selfish and greedy - look at David Cameron who has more money than he could spend for the rest of his life but still wants more.

As MrsKoala points out, the more money you have, theoretically the less you miss extra taxation, but I don’t think it’s really the money those people object to. They seem to think wealth makes them superior in some way to the little people and that they’re special. Hopefully they’re in a minority and most are like us @Aleric.

I always work out what my take home pay will be after tax when applying for jobs, most people I know do- the actual figure of overall salary isn't as important to me as take home.

[quote A1b2c3d4e5f6g7]**@MrsKoala* and @wesowereonabreak* the tax rate of £100k to £123k is 60% with losing the personal allowance. On top of this, once at £100k you lose 15 hours of free childcare, and you lose entitlement to tax free childcare. No child benefit also (although this kicks in earlier).

I’m not saying it’s wrong, because tax needs to be collected, but it’s something people might not be aware of (I wasn’t)[/quote]
Yes, H earns more than that and we lose all those benefits, but it’s fine with us, as you say tax needs to be collected and we are so fortunate.

@Scottishskifun I think that's the point - if the payrise comes with a lot more responsibility (and they often do) sometimes it works out better not to take it

@Aleric

I've never understood people complaining about being taxed more over a certain amount. I know many people who do complain and from when i was a lower tax payer through to being higher i just think what a lovely problem to have. I don't begrudge a penny of it.

I begrudge the disparity between Scotland and England/Wales with tax we do pay more for doing the same work. Over 25K and its at 21% anything over 43K and its 41%. England/Wales its up to 50K its 20% over its 40%.

It does make a difference to what you bring home even on smaller wages which can effect how much you can afford especially when you know your English counterparts don't have the same it's simply a case of where you live!

@Scottishskifun, that may be true. What is equally true is that in Scotland residential care is free and Scottish students don’t pay tuition fees. It’s pretty obvious the money to pay for those things has to come from somewhere.

I don't give a shit about money because it doesn't make me happy and I pity the people who go on and on about it and say it's "inspirational".
These people tend to conflate salary size with intelligence or capability. Bullshit.
Some truly intelligent and capable people decide to build lives that don't revolve around the money machine.

Another one who doesn’t begrudge tax - just how it’s spent.

Crammed schools, long GP waiting times, expensive childcare etc etc.

That’s just the services that most people use- I can’t even begin to describe SEN provision and the daily struggle of disabled people and their families.

What are taxes going towards?

When I think about my drive for money it’s not to buy the latest car/house/holiday. It’s because a lot of state provisions for things are inadequate and I’ll be topping them up.

But I’m very lucky to even think of that when so many people are struggling and by God I do not pay tons of tax to leave half the population behind!

I agree with you TheLastLotus.

I pay tax as normal but I would object to having to pay more and I think the inheritance tax threshold is a joke.

@Aleric

I've never understood people complaining about being taxed more over a certain amount. I know many people who do complain and from when i was a lower tax payer through to being higher i just think what a lovely problem to have. I don't begrudge a penny of it.

because spending 50% of your time and not see anything from it is depressing.

How would you feel if you 3 days of your week were wasted and brought you nothing?

What do we get from it? Need private health care to be seen in decent timescales, need private school so kids are not stuffed in overcrowded classrooms, council tax are higher for some properties and so on and so forth. Why do some of us have to pay for everybody else?

So what people do is get out of PAYE and pay less tax.

Tax should be fair and the same rate apply to everybody. Then I'd be more than happy to pay my share. I am 100% against a system which is unfair and unequal, and people don't pay the same!

*to add, I want the same rate, so I am happy to pay more in total. I disagree with a higher percentage for some!

[quote Alsohuman]@Scottishskifun, that may be true. What is equally true is that in Scotland residential care is free and Scottish students don’t pay tuition fees. It’s pretty obvious the money to pay for those things has to come from somewhere.[/quote]
Scottish residents had this before they had tax powers same as free prescriptions so it was paid for before the difference happened 🤷‍♀️

@wesowereonabreak

*to add, I want the same rate, so I am happy to pay more in total. I disagree with a higher percentage for some!

Exactly.

"What do we get from it? Need private health care to be seen in decent timescales, need private school so kids are not stuffed in overcrowded classrooms"

Oh you need, you need. Poor you!

I’m fairly sure that the market rate for salaries is set with one eye on the take-home after tax, so if tax went down then salaries would probably also go down. I don’t see it as 50% of my time being spent earning money that goes straight to the government.

Why do some of us have to pay for everybody else?

Because it’s how a fair and decent society operates. If you object to paying higher rate tax so much, take a job that pays less than £50k, use the NHS and send your kids to a state school.

When I was in your position I got nothing much for the tax I paid - never ill, no school age kids - that meant I was in a very fortunate and privileged position.

@Alsohuman

Why do some of us have to pay for everybody else?

Because it’s how a fair and decent society operates. If you object to paying higher rate tax so much, take a job that pays less than £50k, use the NHS and send your kids to a state school.

When I was in your position I got nothing much for the tax I paid - never ill, no school age kids - that meant I was in a very fortunate and privileged position.

The problem is that even those who need it aren’t getting a decent service. It’s not crazy to expect timely medical attention and sensible class sizes for example. I don’t mind paying higher rate taxes. but I object to paying double both in the form of both higher taxes and topping up the state provision. Again this hurts the less well off the most - as they don’t even have the option. After having been fobbed off by the GP multiple times I went private and got a diagnosis. Also children of colleagues going to state school who have needed private tuition as the standard of teaching was so bad with basic concepts etc not even being explained. Being happy with a minimum provision of services and high standards only when compared to third world countries is not something one of the world’s richest countries should aspire to!

@wesowereonabreak,

On 2008 a lot of tax resenters suddenly went very quiet when government money was used to bail out the financial system.

And, if you are looking at a nice fat stock market portfolio, you might also think how much tax was spent propping up the economy during COVID.

I agree @TheLastLotus but the answer is to vote in a decent government and that will mean us paying more tax, not less.

Somewhat cynically, I am not certain what a decent government would look like any more.