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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Has anyone managed to change from a rough family to a pleasant one?

126 replies

booksandnooks · 15/04/2021 18:07

My young family is the former, very rough and loud with a crying baby or tantruming toddler and 2 children who run me ragged. I am so embarrassed every single time I take them out. It has come to the point where I would rather sit inside on a beautiful day that try to deal with taking them out. I have 4 under 10 so a lot of children, a lot of noise, and I am spread very very thin. And it shows.
The cracks are visible in my parenting and in my children's behaviour.

Has any one got any tips or advice on how to crack down and deal with this? My eldest 2 have gotten into the habit of sneaking out of bed to watch TV while I am asleep and they both completely ignore me when I ask anything. My sister has noticed and has pulled, both me and the children, up on it. I just let it all out and told her that I am in over my head, quite frankly, and that I am the epitome of a struggling mother DRAGGING her children up rather than bringing them up. In fact most of the time I feel they are dragging me. I just want to be respectable but am failing terribly.

OP posts:
oakleaffy · 15/04/2021 21:06

@LockdownCheeseToastie

Firm boundaries and a consistent routine. Forget after school activities for now. Home, dinner at 5.30, bath at 6.30, stories then older ones can read in bed while you put the younger ones to bed. Take the controllers, remotes, cables etc with you to bed if necessary. Natural consequences and be consistent always.
I'd agree totally ...The worst thing a parent can do is to backtrack on a 'Punishment'..Eg, if you say ''You are grounded tonight for doing/not doing XYZ''

Don't give in for the sake of 'Peace'.

I made this error...and it is a fundamental no no!

I'd say things like ''Oh, if you wash up, you can go out tonight ''

Just because I wanted the peace... Bad move!

Kids are adept at knowing when one is 'Weak'.

Stick to boundaries and 'Fair' punishments. {Some people call them 'Consequences', but they amount to the same thing}.. :)

GettingItOutThere · 15/04/2021 21:08

only thing i want to add, is punishment should be there and then, not tomorrow ideally.

so if they are watching tv when they shouldnt, remove fuse.

If its during the night yes next day punishment but soon as they open their eyes, punishment begins.

its a tough line between love bombing them and coming down on them like aton of bricks.
not listening to you and doing something in front of you clearly disobeying is just disrespecful

SionnachGlic · 15/04/2021 21:11

Think about each of the older ones individually & specific likes & dislikes & cater your consequences for misbehaviours & rewards to match. They don't care about punishments if it takes away something they are not too bothered about. I wouldn't have cared at all when I was small about not getting a pudding...I would have cared alot if I wasn't allowed to watch a particular programme on tv (we were hardly ever let watch it & no recording bk in the day so if you missed it, it was gone forever!) or had to miss a playdate or swimming/sport. And be consistent, don't give in. Taking cable & plug for tv is a good idea...bring them into your room so they can't find them. Same with screens/ gadgets. They can wreck your head alright with the persistence in trying to do/get what they want... when they realise good behaviour works better than tormenting you ...you'll have cracked it. Keep at it OP, you'll get there. Also get DH on board...he can reinforce by calling out bad behaviour & praising good when he is home ..so 'I was sorry to hear you misbehaved & missed out on doing X because of it...' or 'I was glad to hear you helped Mummy when you were asked'...blah blah & so on.... but it might help!!

HappyAsASandboy · 15/04/2021 21:12

I have similar issue with my older kids. I have four kids aged 10, 10, 6 and 1 (just).

My older two have taken to going back downstairs to watch tv when I have asked them to go to bed, because they know that I am still settling the baby and won't know/follow them. We fitted a wifi controlled plug socket to the TV so we can turn it off from our phones. I have just had to get cross with one of them for sneaking downstairs to make paper aeroplanes though - I can't Wi-fi myself out of that one!

I think being consistent and explaining why the rules are important helps. My 10 year olds are full of stories of the freedoms aaaallllll their friends have. I just stick to my guns and explain that I think our boundaries are good for a reason and it is my job to keep them safe and healthly etc etc. It's an ongoing battle though and sometimes feels relentless.

GoodbyeH · 15/04/2021 21:14

Basically don't be afraid to be pretend your a penguin or a boat or a train or a football fan or a fucking bagpipe. Use your imagination when it comes to asking them to do something.

"Sounds like a bunch of fogs horns in here, where do fog horns belong? Yes, a boat. Let's go outside and be a boat. My boats going to the south Pole to look at penguins. (walk around like a penguin, pretend to trip over and make them all laugh) Where's your boat going, ha ha that's great (swear as much as you like in your head at how stupid and fucking boring and repetitive this is but keeeeep smiling!!)

I often find this helps to distract them from being dicks, distracts you from getting annoyed with them and then being annoyed at yourself for getting annoyed at them.

God, parenting is all guilt and feeling like a prize idiot. But hopefully??? It will be worth it???
ConfusedGrin

SlothWithACloth · 15/04/2021 21:17

Stop punishing them. Punishments such as no pudding the next day just cause conflicts and your dcs will become more defiant.
Yes to boundaries. Yes to routine. Yes to consequences.
Explain all your rules and why they’re necessary.
Make sure you spend time with them. You need to have a good connection with your dcs and that means physical connection as well emotional connection.
Hug, kiss, tickle them. Spend time doing something with them. Watching tv together counts.

oakleaffy · 15/04/2021 21:19

Agree with @GettingItOutThere
Punishments should be that day is at all possible..As close as possible time wise as to the ''Crime'' {for want of a better word}.

Definitely lock sweets away. Even better, don't buy them, then they can't be pestered for.

The older children are likely jealous of the baby, too.

''Rewards'' can be doing something they like, even things like extra attention..Kids love one to one attention when under 10. :)

Hadtonamechangeforthis21 · 15/04/2021 21:20

You need to be firm, set boundaries and consequences. If you repeatedly tell your children to do/not do something without following through whatever the consequence may be they simply will not listen to you.

If you already ban electronics don’t return them until their behaviour has improved. Again if you are taking something away and then giving it back a short time later it’s not punishment if you give in for an easy life. Easier said than done sometimes but stand your ground.

GhostCurry · 15/04/2021 21:27

“ The naughty step for a four year old was like half an hour, not sure what you mean by superannuation.”

It was an autocorrected “Supernanny”.

OP, is there any way the older kids could be involved in getting the younger ones ready for bed? Some responsibility could be helpful here.

Also agree that your husband needs to step up, in a big way. It really sounds as though he is escaping from allll of this unscathed. No. That can’t go on.

oakleaffy · 15/04/2021 21:28

I think being consistent and explaining why the rules are important helps. My 10 year olds are full of stories of the freedoms aaaallllll their friends have

Oh yes...
''But Phil's mum lets him stay out til TEN 'O'CLOCK!''

''Anna's dad is building stables in the garden, it's not FAIR that I can't have a pony in the garden!''

''Why can't I have a sleepover? All my friends have sleepovers, I'm the only one not ALLOWED!''

''Why can't I go to Town? Everyone else does! ''

&c&c&c..

Calmate · 15/04/2021 21:28

@sadpapercourtesan

Well said! Wise words from you Flowers

HollyWoodGurl · 15/04/2021 21:32

So... you’re managing 4 kids, one a baby and one a toddler. Keeping them all alive and healthy??? Well done you.

We all lose our shit sometimes. Even those who are on mn pretending they are perfect

nanbread · 15/04/2021 21:34

Haven't read whole thing but from your posts I think you need to focus more on connection with them and less on discipline.

You don't sound permissive, you're already doling out punishments and reward left right and centre.

All behaviour is communication. What are they not getting from you?

Zengagoddess · 15/04/2021 21:38

To answer original question, I’m the mum of 5 teenagers who were much worse than yours. Total muck savages. Practically feral. The type of child that rips Santa’s beard off to confirm he’s a fake and then announces it to the queue with glee. Now...confident, resourceful, able to “sort it out with words”, physically fearless, never bullied, no fights or bust ups in school .

Howmanysleepsnow · 15/04/2021 21:39

I have 8 years between my four (they’re older now though- youngest is 7).
Don’t stress about the crying baby or the tantruming toddler: that’s what they do. Every mum has been there. Feed/ change/ rock the baby. Acknowledge toddler’s feelings but ignore the tantrums. That leaves you free to focus on the elder 2. Get them to help pass nappies, toys etc and praise loads. Tell them how much the little ones love them and notice how caring they are, what good brothers/ sisters they are.
Move the sweets high up or hide them. Unplug the tv/ turn off WiFi at night. You don’t have to make a big deal of it, just make bad behaviour less rewarding: they get up in the night, it’s boring, they stop; cupboards are just full of fruit/ unexciting stuff, no value to taking it. Basically, rather than baby-proof your home, older-child-proof it. Then, pick your battles. Go out. Do stuff. Bored kids play up more. Don’t worry about what anyone thinks. Get out there, keep them stimulated, tire them out! Just keep at it.
(You don’t sound rough btw)

Rabblemum · 15/04/2021 21:39

1 Take the remote and the plug to bed with you, one problem solved.

2 Get a family member to take the two older kids to a filed to run them to get rid of their energy.

3 For now only go to fields, empty parts of beaches and other lonely places to let them behave as badly as they like. When lockdown eases again take a trip to McDonalds, your kids will eat everything and you will see there are worse behaved kids than yours.

4 This will pass, kids do grow older and better behaved. The kids can see a baby is getting more attention than them so praise the good, and ignore some of the bad and try to spend time with them separately.

5 Stop beating yourself up, every parent has felt like this. Kids change out of all recognition, yours will too.

6 Don't forget to love them and build great relationships with them, kids behave out of love, not to avoid some silly consequence.

Branleuse · 15/04/2021 21:50

I think you should give yourself a break. Youre not the only one whos kids have gone a bit feral over lockdown and youve got a lot on your plate.
Now schools are back youll have a bit more peace and the structure and discipline will come back.
Sneaking out of bed to watch telly could be solved by letting them have a telly in their room.

Also if at all possible, never take more than two out per adult. Its just not worth it.
It wont be forever x

potatoesofdefiance · 15/04/2021 22:39

Ah I really feel for you and know exactly how you're feeling. I also have 4 between 1-8 years old and go through phases like what you describe. 4 young kids is just hard, you are way outnumbered (my DH also works almost every waking hour) and these are strange times for them as well, don't be too hard on yourself!

How old is the baby? Boundary pushing from the oldest ones is a normal response to a new baby in my experience. This will settle, in the mean time routine helps (and I'm not usually a routiney sort of person).

A couple of specific suggestions which you could try if you haven't already;

Be as diligent as you can with consequences for not listening, it makes a big difference, but it is really tough with a baby so give yourself a break too! You don't have to be perfect!

Get outside as early in the day as you can bare, so hard to get going but has such a positive impact on the rest of the day, even if just a 15 minute runabout.

TV: mine got up at night once and we came down pretty hard on them, tv banned for a while after (this is hard on you too but is worth it if tv motivates them), they never did it again. We also had a phase where we took the remotes upstairs and unplugged to stop them getting up painfully early at the weekend to watch tv, take away the temptation! Generally we have only set times where screens are allowed otherwise it gets out of hand, towards the end of the day so it can be used as incentive.

Engage them in helping with the littler ones where possible, praise their responsibility - e.g fetching nappies, watching / playing with the baby in a secure space while you give the toddler a few minutes attention, help get the toddlers shoes on to go outside etc. Mine respond better when they feel they can be helpful and proud of themselves. Doesn't always work of course but worth a try!

Positive phrasing instead of lots of "no" and "don't do that" really does work better, and making a game of things instead of issuing commands.

Reward charts work but best for one specific thing at a time otherwise, like your example, they tend to drift after a while. I used it most recently for the middle 2 getting themselves dressed in the morning and ready for bed at night without help and chasing. Start with your most difficult time of day to tackle, you can't change lots of problems at once you'll just get overwhelmed!

Build in fun extras that fit what they like/ their personalities. Family reading sessions is tricky with 4 at those ages especially if you have high energy children like me, but garden picnics / film nights/ dance parties / adventure night walks or other ideas may work better. Even if 90% is hard slog a few fun moments, especially if you time these at the end of the day, makes it all feel much better. You can use as another reward system too. Each of mine (except the baby!) have a few small jobs to do in the week which they can tick off on a chart. If the chart is full at the end of the week we do a movie night with pizza all together at the weekend. It has to be realistic though otherwise they will always fail and you'll all feel shitty! Start small...

If at all possible, and I know it's very hard, try to find a few minutes each day for each child one on one, or at least for the older 2 separate from the younger 2 (maybe after they go to bed?) Just to play a favourite game, read a chapter or have a chat. It really helps to bring you closer which should in turn help with the listening.

Regarding taking them out, I have abandoned all thought of taking them anywhere except parks / woodlands or similar for a while! Pre covid we did quite a lot but there were only 3 then and they have lost all social skills through the various lock-downs I fear. Outdoor cafes with a play area work ok but otherwise I'd not be making your life harder than it needs to be for a little while longer!

It is tough but will get better as they all get a bit older, until then find the things that keep you sane and enjoy the few joyful moments when they appear!

Mybestestfriend · 15/04/2021 22:46

Even 'pleasant' families have dreadful moments.

Through no virtue of mine, my children are extremely pleasant. I don't know why, I don't deserve it. However, they have done some awful things in their time.

They're just people at the end of the day, having bad days and good days like the rest of us. Put them in a house and you have Little Brother, don't you. Lovely montages, horrific scenes to live with from time to time. I really think they're all like that and it's far better than having people unable to behave badly because they're too scared/neglected.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 15/04/2021 23:08

I think you are being quite hard on yourself
Parenting courses mainly focus on
Praise good behaviour
Ignore bad behaviour
Model the behaviour you want
Self care
And 1:1 time per child

It’s a far softer approach than the super nanny discipline and boundaries type approach

But when you are tired it’s hard

You also get Little respite or a break

I’d definitely read up on some of this , as it works and is a happier way

And self care means not being too hard on yourself OP

LabiaMinoraPissusFlapus · 15/04/2021 23:10

When I am exhausted and have been stretched to the max, I see behaviour from my children that I think is dreadful. This is especially the case if more than one has been playing up. I can feel like the worst parent ever. But when I calm down and look back on it, I realise that it wasn't so bad at all. Yes it may have needed punishing and I will hopefully have done that (!), but kids do stuff and try things that they shouldn't. It was my mood at the time that influenced how I felt about a particular behaviour. Other times can be much better. I have found my children to be very hard work over the years. Two of them have had late diagnoses of ASD and ADHD. I think one of my others may have ADHD too. Now I realise that they weren't being naughty, but there are reasons they found various situations to be difficult. I work with a lot of parents and I see some bad behaviour in every type of house (rough or not rough!). The thing that bothers me is when I see kids who are so suppressed and controlled by the parents. I think this must be storing up problems for the future. Everyone also has very different ideas of acceptable behaviour. I can be shocked at things my children do sometimes, but then I have watched other people's children who I thought had behaviour management perfected, and seen shocking behaviour that I know my children would never dream of doing. Everyone has different circumstances and ideals. It sounds as though you are doing a very good job. No one said parenting was easy!

SnackSizeRaisin · 15/04/2021 23:34

This behaviour sounds like attention seeking. Perhaps they feel that misbehaving is the only way of getting your attention. You need to get them back on side instead of them feeling pushed out and resentful. Also don't take their behaviour personally, they are showing how they feel at the moment, it doesn't mean that they don't love and respect you. Here is what I would do:
Ask your husband to support you with this. Maybe he needs to reduce his hours in the short term to enable you to get back in control, maybe you need to get extra help such as family or put the toddler in a nursery, maybe you need a break yourself.
Ensure 10 minutes on 1 to 1 time with each child every day.
Don't argue, shout or punish them. Things like stopping pudding the next day are just going to make them feel bad and are not logical consequences.
Put boundaries in where possible by physically locking away the sweets or TV or whatever, to avoid giving them the chance to cause an argument.
Consequences should be logical so that they don't feel like a punishment, or at least directly related to what they did wrong.
Equally, rewards should also be intrinsic where possible
Pick your battles and choose a couple of things to change initially. Ignore any unwanted behaviour unless you are willing to be really consistent about changing it.
Try to build up the children's self esteem and help them to feel important, encourage them to help you around the house, play games and joke with them, baby them a bit if they seem to like that. Sometimes put their needs before the baby's, by letting the baby wait a minute or 2 whilst you help the older ones first.
But with 4 it was always going to be noisy and chaotic...it will get easier!

CorianderBee · 16/04/2021 00:21

@ColinKnocksTwoPence

When I was young my DF used to punish me by taking the fuse out of the plug on my electric blanket. (I have no memory at all of what I had done wrong). But within the day I learned how to take the fuse out of their plug and put it in mine 😉
That's why you don't do it in front of them so they don't know what a fuse is
nanbread · 16/04/2021 14:07

@SnackSizeRaisin

This behaviour sounds like attention seeking. Perhaps they feel that misbehaving is the only way of getting your attention. You need to get them back on side instead of them feeling pushed out and resentful. Also don't take their behaviour personally, they are showing how they feel at the moment, it doesn't mean that they don't love and respect you. Here is what I would do: Ask your husband to support you with this. Maybe he needs to reduce his hours in the short term to enable you to get back in control, maybe you need to get extra help such as family or put the toddler in a nursery, maybe you need a break yourself. Ensure 10 minutes on 1 to 1 time with each child every day. Don't argue, shout or punish them. Things like stopping pudding the next day are just going to make them feel bad and are not logical consequences. Put boundaries in where possible by physically locking away the sweets or TV or whatever, to avoid giving them the chance to cause an argument. Consequences should be logical so that they don't feel like a punishment, or at least directly related to what they did wrong. Equally, rewards should also be intrinsic where possible Pick your battles and choose a couple of things to change initially. Ignore any unwanted behaviour unless you are willing to be really consistent about changing it. Try to build up the children's self esteem and help them to feel important, encourage them to help you around the house, play games and joke with them, baby them a bit if they seem to like that. Sometimes put their needs before the baby's, by letting the baby wait a minute or 2 whilst you help the older ones first. But with 4 it was always going to be noisy and chaotic...it will get easier!
I think this is great advice

I'd also add - you don't have to set boundaries angrily. I always thought an angry face / stern voice etc was needed, but you can be firm and warm.

Lots of recommendations here on getting the elder ones to help with baby etc, that's fine for a bit but just because they were born first doesn't mean they should automatically help care for siblings and asking them for favours all the time without making space for their own interests could make them resentful.

See them as their own person, not as just a sibling or your child, take an interest in their interests.

booksandnooks · 17/04/2021 14:36

@GoodbyeH

Basically don't be afraid to be pretend your a penguin or a boat or a train or a football fan or a fucking bagpipe. Use your imagination when it comes to asking them to do something.

"Sounds like a bunch of fogs horns in here, where do fog horns belong? Yes, a boat. Let's go outside and be a boat. My boats going to the south Pole to look at penguins. (walk around like a penguin, pretend to trip over and make them all laugh) Where's your boat going, ha ha that's great (swear as much as you like in your head at how stupid and fucking boring and repetitive this is but keeeeep smiling!!)

I often find this helps to distract them from being dicks, distracts you from getting annoyed with them and then being annoyed at yourself for getting annoyed at them.

God, parenting is all guilt and feeling like a prize idiot. But hopefully??? It will be worth it???
ConfusedGrin

Ahh amazing idea. I don't pretend play nearly as much as I should and I always enjoy it when I'm in the midst of it. My nan used to get us to dust the stairs because the Queen was coming for lunch and she would think badly of us if we had dusty stairs. I took it way too seriously! But I loved it and she could get on with the housework while us kids were helping not destroying the rest of the house
OP posts:
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