Has anyone managed to change from a rough family to a pleasant one?

[booksandnooks]

My young family is the former, very rough and loud with a crying baby or tantruming toddler and 2 children who run me ragged. I am so embarrassed every single time I take them out. It has come to the point where I would rather sit inside on a beautiful day that try to deal with taking them out. I have 4 under 10 so a lot of children, a lot of noise, and I am spread very very thin. And it shows.
The cracks are visible in my parenting and in my children's behaviour.

Has any one got any tips or advice on how to crack down and deal with this? My eldest 2 have gotten into the habit of sneaking out of bed to watch TV while I am asleep and they both completely ignore me when I ask anything. My sister has noticed and has pulled, both me and the children, up on it. I just let it all out and told her that I am in over my head, quite frankly, and that I am the epitome of a struggling mother DRAGGING her children up rather than bringing them up. In fact most of the time I feel they are dragging me. I just want to be respectable but am failing terribly.

In terms of sneaking down at night I would be taking the power cable out of the TV or whatever is needed to remove that as a possibility.

It might be easier to take all the remotes to bed with you than remove the fuse.
Do you get to spend time with just the older 2?

Also I assume your partner has at least 1 day off a week? On that day could he take the older children out somewhere? Something like swimming or a bike ride? (or younger ones although trickier with breastfeeding)

Cross post! Fuse out plug would work perfectly!

You know if you have the awareness to think you are "rough" you really aren't. You sound like you are trying all sorts, reward charts etc. The ones that are truly rough dont actually give a shit and let their kids sort themselves. You're not letting them run riot ( I only have 2 so you seem like a superhero to me😬), you are trying and doing the best you can, they all grow up right?

no pushing or anything like that, they aren't nasty to other children. I don't mind loud playing at the park, it is the pubs reopening thats worrying me. DH wants to go for meals as soon as we can but baby wasn't even born the last time we went to the pub. I've slipped so far. I actually feel like giving up.

The worst thing about the sneaking up after bedtime is that they won't get punished if I don't know about it! Also they can be quiet.... just not for me.

I think you’re being too hard on yourself...I have 2 and it’s chaos! Also sitting nice in the living room playing board games is just a dream lol reality is everyone arguing over the remote and what’s for dinner!!!

It can be small steps to try like the tv idea which was my first thought so I wouldn’t be buying sweets until behaviour had consistently improved and so they would be a treat same with puddings unless it’s totally healthy like fruit. If necessary have the sweets somewhere else that they cannot go like your undies draw. I would keep the tin where it is but empty. It’s very difficult to be a consistent disciplinarian with little ones and tiredness is a real struggle too but you want change so you “ just” keep at it the strength to be persistent is key ime.

I think expecting four young children to sit quietly and play nicely together in a house without any structure is going to result in a cycle of argument, sanctions, moaning and negativity.
Punishment only works in moderation. Positive reinforcement and structure is far more effective. It’s hard when everything is on hold but outside of lockdown-as is beginning to happen - set up a clear routine and programme of activities. Use after school activities, things like county music lessons and Saturday sessions, swimming lessons, tumbletots, mini rugby, youth theatre, football, tennis etc. When older ones are doing activities you have one-to-one time with little ones.

Trying to keep them all together and happy is probably not going to happen.

When I was young my DF used to punish me by taking the fuse out of the plug on my electric blanket. (I have no memory at all of what I had done wrong).
But within the day I learned how to take the fuse out of their plug and put it in mine 😉

Have you tried giving them some responsibilities? You could sit them down and explain that they are growing up fast and you need their help with you are busy with the baby, so if they help with xyz they can have an extra 10 mins of screen time or something else to promote good behaviour? Punishing bad behaviour obviously isn’t working so painting them as ‘role models for the little ones’ and making them feel a bit grown up could work?

You don't sound rough at all. You sound like you care. I agree that the children are taking advantage of the fact you are feeding the baby so they know that you can't run after them.

I read on another thread on MN that repeatedly removing the fuse from a plug isn't good for it, and I agree that removing the power cable is a better idea.

Oh OP, you sound so lovely and so tired.

I have no pearls of wisdom, except to say, I think you’re doing marvellously, and just put one foot in front of the other.

Also- all kids are feral by their very nature. Some (and their parents) just hide it better than others

When I was their age I was down the park or playing round the block with friends, so I do feel for them. I probably spent 80% of my summer and springs out of doors.
Whereas my children only get to go out when I am out and with babies in the house it can't be an all day every day event.

They aren't too bad all the time, I am being a little bit dramatic. But when its bad its really bad and I could run away. I'm sure everyone has had the feeling but it really is a horrible experience at the moment.
I feel like I am wasting their last years of childhood constantly fighting and bargaining with them.

Children absolutely thrive on routine and I know it’s extremely dull and to begin with, quite difficult to implement and stick to but it really does pay off. You’ll inevitably always have your bad moments/bad days/even bad weeks but it does generally make day to day living that bit more bearable.

I have 5 DC aged 11 and under and without routine, everything would fall to shit. I have to be almost militant with them and they do appreciate it even if they don’t always feel like it. There’s no way my DC would even dream of sneaking downstairs to watch TV because they know they’d lose their games and probably dessert too for something so bad. They do still misbehave sometimes because they’re children and it’s almost natural for children to push boundaries but that’s why you need to push back and show them consequences for those actions. Remove technology or other treats if they misbehave.

You do need to be tough on children sometimes, they kind of need someone to be strict and offer them boundaries because they push them to essentially see whether you care enough to stop them.

Don’t beat yourself up though, shit parents wouldn’t be on MN asking for advice. They don’t care enough to realise they are crap parents, they just let their kids run wild.

Avoid making statements that you can't deliver on and being ineffective.
I was queuing with DS (year 2) and the woman behind me was an acquaintance with a badly behaved child (no SEN) who couldn't discipline him, in the end she said she'd phone his Dad to come and collect him and take him home. Like that's going to happen when she's queuing up to take her son for a hair cut at barbers for boys/men.

She just came across as rough and ineffectual as she was making no real effort to stop him misbehaving all the other children in the queue were being fine.

Right baby is asleep, I'm off to play army men with the older ones. It probably is stemming from resentment- i am spending hardly any time with them compared to before toddler was born. I have had 2 babies consecutively so they had newborn mummy, pregnant lummy dont touch or she will throw up and back to baby obsessed mummy again.
Thanks all for the words of wisdom and support. Just having a little rant and a rave and having people sharing their experiences back help. DH works so he just doesn't get it, and I'm the only one of my siblings to have children so I don't really have anyone to have a little moan to

If you had a camera in the hall outside their rooms you would be able to check in the mornings if they've been up in the night.
Not as good as catching them red handed, but would just knowing that they're always going to be caught mean they keep to their rooms?

If they're up in the night and watching tv then surely they're tired during the day and this wont be helping with their behaviour.

Seek out parenting/behaviour management classes online. There is no shame in it & they can be very helpful. The kids don't come with a manual. Just don't have any more.

@OhShitShit I needed that and back to you

@booksandnooks

Consequence is no pudding the next day and no screen time for the whole day. my eldest took the sweet box out of the cupboard this morning (while I was breastfeeding) and put some sweets in his mouth Whilst I was telling him not to. openly defiant its very upsetting. I made him spit them into my hand and sit in the calm down corner (they go in for the same amount of minutes as their age superannuation style) but it doesn't phase them at all if I did that to my parents I'd have been smacked on the bottom so hard! thats all I think about when they treat me so badly. I wouldn't have dared as a child. But I can hardly hit them can I?

This isn't going to be popular but I am friends with a couple who overcame similar. Part of it was looking at themselves - they bickered a lot and so on.

They went on a self discipline for themselves and their DC, of whom there was only one at the time.

Things like a sweetie cupboard would be locked. The naughty step for a four year old was like half an hour, not sure what you mean by superannuation. Then it would be "this is what you are doing today" - with one activity selected. No other options.

If it takes locking a bedroom or cupboard door to keep them away from toys or sweets, that's what they did. No eating allowed except at the table. Only water allowed to be carried anywhere else.

They themselves really ramped up being clean and tidy and had a routine, all toys away before dinner etc.

They also spoke to each other calmly and quietly which frankly was a relief for me - I don't know where to look when you socialise with a couple and they bicker.

If the child was told "put toys away now" and said "in a minute" they would say hmmm...okay - occasionally - but then count the minute.

Totally know where you’re coming from

I have 4, first 2 dad was awful we split.
Met new partner and had 2 more, so four boys. He worked a lot too shifts, then once I went back after mat leave I did his days off. So permanently tired. I did struggle but on the whole things weren’t too bad. However my youngest is being assessed for asd so I did parenting course (triple p) as school recommended it pre being seen by camhs. I was quite affronted initially. However it was fantastic and really made me open my eyes to how I parent, the things I say in front of my kids etc. It really helped me with my 3 eldest however not so much with youngest.
Most councils/health boards have similar often Solihull. Parenting multiple kids is hard, boundaries and consistency are imperative and no way would mine be wandering out of bed at night. You need to stamp out that as it’s really not acceptable.

There’s loads on here who think parenting is easy, but every kid is different and as a collective 3/4 kids can be a nightmare together and figuring them all our and what works for each kid takes time, which is hard if you’re tired. I have felt the way you’re feeling about going out and missing out on their childhood as it’s all ‘too much’ overwhelming etc. It also doesn’t last forever as your eldest gets older and your youngest isn’t a baby things def improve (mine are 10-20) now so def a vast difference but I have been there and there is light at the end of the tunnel, do have some confidence in yourself, you only want the best it’s going about it that is sometimes a struggle. Your health visitor may be able to point you int the direction of support or parenting classes - don’t be put off we all need help sometimes.
Hope things improve, I know your partner works long hours but I hope you can count on his support it should not all fall to you

I don't mean this to sound patronising but have you thought about reading a book or doing a short online course on behaviour management? I do think it's a skill that can people can 'scrub up' on and it can be refreshing and motivating to see some of the research behind different strategies. It sounds like lots of what you're doing is along the right lines but seeing it in a 'guide' format with a plan to follow might help keep you on track with it as well?

Be a bit easier on yourself. We all have tough seasons of parenting but for most they ease.

I would suggest focusing on postive praise and almost downplay the negative behaviour. Invest sometime sharing an interest with the oldest two. Be consistent. Keep calm and follow through on consequences. Talk to them about what they would like as family life. Good luck. You are enough for your little ones.