Has anyone managed to change from a rough family to a pleasant one?

[booksandnooks]

My young family is the former, very rough and loud with a crying baby or tantruming toddler and 2 children who run me ragged. I am so embarrassed every single time I take them out. It has come to the point where I would rather sit inside on a beautiful day that try to deal with taking them out. I have 4 under 10 so a lot of children, a lot of noise, and I am spread very very thin. And it shows.
The cracks are visible in my parenting and in my children's behaviour.

Has any one got any tips or advice on how to crack down and deal with this? My eldest 2 have gotten into the habit of sneaking out of bed to watch TV while I am asleep and they both completely ignore me when I ask anything. My sister has noticed and has pulled, both me and the children, up on it. I just let it all out and told her that I am in over my head, quite frankly, and that I am the epitome of a struggling mother DRAGGING her children up rather than bringing them up. In fact most of the time I feel they are dragging me. I just want to be respectable but am failing terribly.

Stop comparing yourself to other families first of all. Are your children loved, happy and fed??
Who gives a shit if they are slightly feral?!?

Awww, I have 4 under 10 as well...similar ages to yours so know what you’re talking about. TBH, the noise is part and parcel of it and can’t get too worked up about that. However, the eldest being openly disobedient and unhelpful is not good and needs to be remedied. It takes hard work and a lot of nagging but if you persist and keep at it, they will get into the routine of, for example, completing chores and taking a bit more responsibility for themselves.

Also, don’t be so hard on yourself...I’m sure you are doing a wonderful job and are being super critical because you care so much.

@booksandnooks

When I was their age I was down the park or playing round the block with friends, so I do feel for them. I probably spent 80% of my summer and springs out of doors. Whereas my children only get to go out when I am out and with babies in the house it can't be an all day every day event.

They aren't too bad all the time, I am being a little bit dramatic. But when its bad its really bad and I could run away. I'm sure everyone has had the feeling but it really is a horrible experience at the moment.
I feel like I am wasting their last years of childhood constantly fighting and bargaining with them.

They’re stuck inside so that’s probably why they’re so restless. You say you have 4 under 10 years old. Can’t the older ones play out?

I had a friend years ago, she had two young daughters,and they just ran riot in the house, all the time, they had no discipline whatsoever. Friend used to sit watching crap tv all day long, and basically they then had the run of the house all day, if friend heard any crashing or banging around the house, like opening kitchen doors to get stuff, friend would not move from the sofa, she would just yell, if you two don't stop banging things around, and climbing on the worktop again, you won't get any dinner today., while she herself sat eating crisps and chocolate all day, while watching tv non stop,

If I had 2 more babies in a few years I could imagine this being my house. My kuds push and push boundaries and so it when thry know they can e.g. when I'm on the phone. If I had a baby and toddler they would take full advantage.
You sound like you are trying your best. I agree with pp- your DH needs to be stepping up loss more with 4 kids in a pandemic.

Otherwise as others have said - firm boundaries.

Your older dc are testing boundaries, and most do. They are testing to see how far they can push you.
Take some time to draw up a whole timetable, so each child has time with you, activities and chores to complete. It’s non negotiable. Unless the toys are away and table is laid - no dinner. No not leaves without helping tidy up. Do so cheerfully. Put the radio on, make it a race.
Research family days out you can all enjoy,
Make sure you aren’t cooing over the baby, older children need plenty of love and attention too.
Dh needs to do much more to help!

1forall your friend sounds seriously depressed.

Nothing changes until you recognise it needs changing so you've made a good start.

Also you sound like you are honest about the situation which again will help.

I'd start with a family meeting and setting some rules.

Maybe a chore chart with things like setting table.

Make expectations clear and consequences relevant and clear.

So mealtimes - sit at table. If you leave then you've finished and that's it until next meal.

When out and about. If you are loud or run off then we have to go back home - and do.

Take the plugs to bed for electronics and the fuse out the tv plug at night. If they get up they can't watch tv! But consequence is if they are up in the night they have to go to bed earlier the next day.

Just start with the biggest thing you want to change first. Stick at that calmly for 2 weeks. Personally I'd do the overnights because if they and you are less tried the rest will be easier to manage.

It's so easy to slip into bad habits but it sounds like you have the determination to put in the hard work needed to change it around.

Firm boundaries and a consistent routine. Forget after school activities for now. Home, dinner at 5.30, bath at 6.30, stories then older ones can read in bed while you put the younger ones to bed. Take the controllers, remotes, cables etc with you to bed if necessary. Natural consequences and be consistent always.

With the very littlest one, can you put into a sling or carrier? And feed in it?

It's a bit of a learning curve to get it on right, so it doesn't hurt your back etc but it might keep your hands free.

Good luck!

When you have a little baby and a toddler it’s almost impossible to feel serene and respectable. We have all felt a bit skanky and vulnerable to criticism when the baby is crying and the toddler is running out of control in public. If I saw you out and about under those circumstances I would give you a smile and I would tell you are doing fine. Make sure you get out the house- staying in all day won’t be doing any of you any good.

Cannot believe these responses. OP you are doing amazing and in a few years this will be distant memory. Ask for help either from your partner or pay for it and be kind to yourself. Kids are frankly a nightmare and the more you have the worse it is, but they grow up and you will be reap the rewards then

If they don't care about the consequences you impose you need to find consequences they do care about.

Great post @itsgettingwierd screen shots for when I have kids thanks!

It sounds tough but your older DC are just seeking some attention. It sounds like your busy with the two younger ones and your DH works all the time. Can you get family round? Can your DH spend anytime with the older DC? Sounds hard all round but you and your DH have chosen to have 4 DC and your older two are being affected by your choices. It is what it is but something needs to change or they will just be labelled as naughty or difficult.

You sound pretty normal to me. Try to focus on the adults they will become, not just the child. Not all quiet, well-behaved children grow up to be confident and well-adjusted adults. A child psychologist once told me studies have shown that children are better off with parents who are too “nice”, rather than parents who are too harsh. A pp suggested placing a 4 year old in timeout for half an hour! Like that’s going to go well! Why not lock them under that stairs as well Your one minute per year of age for timeout is appropriate for young children. All the best, be kind to yourself

Is there somewhere the older kids can go outside that's safe but easy for you to also be there with baby and toddler. Can you get the older two to be on "your team" so e.g. if they help you get baby to nap or help you with nappy changes they get a special grown up reward, extra attention and time with you? As others have said can you feed in a sling so baby and you are not so housebound? That helped me a lot when I had a newborn and a boistrous energetic 4yr old who needed a lot of exercise. Is there anyone nearby, another family with say 1 or 2 kids who you can team up with. 2 mums and 6 kids is somehow much easier, and could be a support for you as well as diffuse any sibling fighting? My kids behave better when their friends parents are about!

It sounds like you really have your hands full and you're doing your very best. Some small changes might be all you need to see a difference.

Kids love to push boundaries and know exactly how to wind us up. I always tell myself to try to be like the CEO of a top company, they would never lose their shit in front of their employees or they'd lose all credibility. I defo don't always achieve it but every day is a new day to try again!

Have you approached the school to see if they can give you support? Many schools have family support workers who can work with you. They might be able to direct you to parenting courses.

Pick the one issue that bugs you the most and tackle that consistently for a few weeks. Just one.

Uch Op this parenting malarkey is tough!

Have you had a discussion with them about the new baby and how much time new babies need? Maybe they could "help"!! Obviously it would be much quicker and easier if they didn't. but given you think their behaviour is linked it might be worth getting them more involved. Can they be responsible for fetching nappies when they are needed, or helping to bath the baby, or reading (telling) the baby a story? Tell them how helpful this would be for you and reward them with lots of praise, cuddles and your time and attention (because it sounds like this is what they are looking for). Children do respond well when they are told they are responsible, trusted and good.

Also you do need to spend some time with the older children with no interruptions. If your OH can't (or wont) provide you with this time, reach out to other friends or family members. Or look out for local charities in your area who can provide parenting support - in my neck of the woods we have Homestart. They provide volunteers to come out to your home and simply be another pair of hands. My friend had three children under 5 and her Homestart volunteer would take the baby into another room to allow her to spend some time playing, baking, etc with the older two.

Remember that this too will pass!!! I remember when my second was born and the health visitor was due to for an appointment at 11am. At 10.58 my 3 year old needed a poo and went off to the loo by himself like a big boy. At 10.59 my newborn decided to expell a weeks worth of poo in one almighty explosion. At 11am the doorbell rang and I answered it sobbing as my screaming three year old stood in the hall naked from the waist down with poo smeared all down his legs and the very shitty newborn wailed !! I was mortified and thought I was a shit mum. The Health Visitor took one look at us , took the newborn, smiled and said "I'll sort this one, you sort that one!" . Sometimes you just need another pair of hands.

I know this is sounds silly, but notice things going right. Notice the older ones being helpful and behaving well and thank them. Make a plan for the day that includes getting out, but depends on their co-operation. Bribe them - good behaviour when you go out equals sweets on the way home, not pocket money at some unspecified point in the week. Try to enlist the older ones in your 'team' for getting things done and looking after the little ones.

Tell them how you feel - I felt so embarrassed/angry when you were badly behaved in that shop, or I'm so proud when we go out together and you behave like reasonable young people and not hooligans.
Or I'm tired and I need your help today.
And don't be afraid to lose your shit at them occasionally but try not to do it so often that they tune it out as background noise.

Parenting has close parallels with dog training...and horse owning.

A dog rescue we went to said ''We watch the children..If a family have well behaved, quiet children, the dog will be equally well trained''

Monty Roberts the horse trainer also took on difficult teenagers who had never been set boundaries, and worked hard to ''Re train'' the teens.

Four children is a lot to have unless there is 'Order'.

My schoolfriend was from a family of 6 kids .All were lovely to be around and it was peaceful.

No shouting or screaming, and nor was it tolerated by visiting kids.

Best to start young, but respect is definitely a two way street.

Well behaved children are a credit to their parents..It isn't ' just 'Luck''

I'm sure you will make improvements.

Shouting and raised voices can immediately be stopped.

Good luck.

1. Routine - Every day the same things happen at the same time. This includes all meals, planned sit down activities, outside time and bedtime.

1. Boundaries + rewards - Nothing fun until all 'must haves' are done. This includes, meals eaten, dressed, rooms tidied, getting ready for bed.

No TV or screens until they have completed some tasks that help the whole household. So my children have to eat breakfast, put dishes in dishwasher, get dressed and bedrooms tidy and front room tidy, walk the dog Then they can choose what they want to do. Normally 45 mins of telly. I also take them out to meet a friend or to the park.

1. Outside is essential - whether its a walk to the shops or a trip to the park. Fresh air and a chance to run off steam.

1. Only use positive reinforcement - no negative talk. Don't put them down or undermine them. Praise when it's due. Everytime. Turn things into a joke when things start getting unruly. Sense of humour is essential! Don't take the piss out of them but don't be so serious when things kick off.

Everytime you want to say something negative, breath and turn it into a positive. Make them want to like you and respect you. No one respects grumpy nagging mum.

1. 1 on 1 quality time - each child gets 10 minutes every day with just you. That's 30 minutes a day you need to find to give them your full attention individually (not including baby in this) they get to choose the activities. You set a timer for 10 mins.

You can up the 10 minutes in the future if that fits in with your day.

1. After school park - this let's them burn off the energy of the day. They don't get to move much at school and I think exercise is so important for peace of mind and behaviour.

1. A strict but gentle bedtime routine - no screens. Wash, brush teeth and P. Js. Then sit down to read. Either read to them or they get 30 mins with a torch to read themselves. Same time every night.

1. Sit down meals with the whole family - even if DH isn't back. You eat with them. Talk about your days. Likes and dislikes. Find out what made them tick that day.

1. Don't t always say no - sometimes you have to suck it up and say yes. This makes them feel heard and more likely to say yes to you too.

Praise, praise, praise and more God dam fucking praise. Nice voice even when pissed off. Don't shout, don't let your face look angry. Be calm, be cool and if you need to take time out yourself then explain that to them, then come back and discipline/explain consequences or just a chat.

Take time for yourself. This is hard with babies around and 4 kids and an absent DH. But you have to do something you enjoy. You deserve happiness as much as they do.

I had 3 kids in 3 years. It's mayhem sometimes, it's loud. But I try to live by these rules as much as humanly possible. Sometimes I fail. Sometimes I cry, sometimes I think I want to run. But it's works to keep order as much as possible.

Remember your children are worth it. You're worth it. YOU CAN DO THIS YOU ABSOLUTE LEGEND!

I was the oldest of 4. We were always divided into 'big ones' and 'little ones' and being a big one was hard, there was not much, if any, personal attention, of course we were fed and had clean clothes but no stories or any time with parents. It made us unhappy. I absented myself in books and sulking, but if I'd been more confident I'd probably have been just plain naughty for attention. Ten minutes a day would have made a world of difference. I think it's brilliant that you are now playing with the eldest two, exactly what we would have loved.
i only had 2 myself, I couldn't have managed more but sometimes I wish I had. I have a friend with a large family (4) and i used to notice her talking to the big ones about when they were babies and making them laugh and I remember thinking that was the way to do it. It seemed to defuse or smooth the needy gap between big and little.

My tv has a power lead that can be removed totally - like the ones that kettles used to have - so maybe you wont even have the faff of removing a fuse every night if you can just remove that from the back of the telly and hide it?