Has anyone managed to change from a rough family to a pleasant one?

[booksandnooks]

My young family is the former, very rough and loud with a crying baby or tantruming toddler and 2 children who run me ragged. I am so embarrassed every single time I take them out. It has come to the point where I would rather sit inside on a beautiful day that try to deal with taking them out. I have 4 under 10 so a lot of children, a lot of noise, and I am spread very very thin. And it shows.
The cracks are visible in my parenting and in my children's behaviour.

Has any one got any tips or advice on how to crack down and deal with this? My eldest 2 have gotten into the habit of sneaking out of bed to watch TV while I am asleep and they both completely ignore me when I ask anything. My sister has noticed and has pulled, both me and the children, up on it. I just let it all out and told her that I am in over my head, quite frankly, and that I am the epitome of a struggling mother DRAGGING her children up rather than bringing them up. In fact most of the time I feel they are dragging me. I just want to be respectable but am failing terribly.

One piece of advice I was given was avoid confrontational or negative words and sentences when it’s not necessary. Saying “No you can’t play the PlayStation, you have to clean your room” means all they hear is no, “You can play the PlayStation after you’ve cleaned your room” or “You can have sweets after we’ve tidied away the lunch things” sounds more positive and can really help avoid the stropping and moaning!

I have 4 DC, ,all teenagers now so they rarely do want to go out with me🤣, But I feel your pain. It is exhausting looking after 4 and you are outnumbered, usually at least one of them would be grumpy and that could effect the others, was quite rare to have all 4 happy and content at the same time! 4 DC do collectively make a lot of noise, individually they were no louder than any other child but if you have 4 DC its just naturally louder, same as a group of 6 adults in a restaurant are usually noiser than just a couple.
So as long as they are behaving try not to feel self conscious or awkward, they will only learn social skills by going out to places but if its hard try to do it when DH is also around to support you.
Im sure you are not a bad parent, be kind to yourself,noone is perfect and DH needs to parent when he isnt at work.
It does get easier as they get older, set boundaries and be firm and consistent.
Can DH to look after them sometimes so you get time to yourself to recharge? if you are run ragged its so much harder to parent.

How about trying to tackle things one at a time. Write down your top 3 issues like “talking too loud”, fighting, ignoring when spoken to etc. Then look at the top three and start with the one. So week one is “biggest” issue first. Tell the children that in order to get pocket money/screen time/whatever you do in your house they need to not “shout”, ignore instructions” whatever. And be firm. Reward the behaviour that you like. Overly so. Tell them how much it means to you etc. Then take the next on the list. And so on. Might seek less daunting if it’s one at a time?

I have four kids - it’s easier now the older two are more mature/reasonable. I think it can be very difficult when bad behaviour becomes a habit, then it’s hard to break.

I would say something has to be done about the sneaking out at night and ignoring you, what do you say or do when this happens? Not in an unkind way, but you sound a bit like you feel helpless, and they will be noticing that. If I asked my eldest to do something while I was breastfeeding my youngest and he ignored me, I would stop feeding, sort the situation and then go back to it. It’s not ideal, but otherwise the child learns they can disobey and ignore you because you won’t actually do anything about it. Might also help to keep them all busy during the day, so they are tired at night.

I would also try to divide and conquer with regards to the older two. Get your husband to take them out a couple of times to give you a rest from them.

@GreyhoundG1rl

Why are you shocked? It was never going to happen without some actual parenting from you.

@GreyhoundG1rl have seen you in quite a few threads now being nasty and putting down people’s parenting. Troll.

You are being too hard on yourself. A crying baby isn't unusual, we've all seen trantruming toddlers. T happens. You sound like you are doing things right but it's so much harder with 4. I struggled with 2 ! Suspect it's an attention thing if it's ramped up since the baby came along.
Can your sister help ? Can your hubby look after the baby and toddler whilst you give quality time to the older ones, maybe read a book before bed with them ? I suppose you need to chose your battles wisely too otherwise it's just constant aggro. No pudding and removing the tv all day is a big punishment.

Hi , might have missed same comment , but children will push till they reach their boundaries. Set firm ones , or they will keep pushing till someone does! ( be that school or home ) . Good luck op , deep breath... just set what’s truly important to you ... as for board games ♟ set a time , so after tea on Sunday ?!? And stick to it . Mine used to have a jigsaw on the go at the end of the dining table... first thing DD2 always did was hid a random bit in her sock ... so she always had last piece to put in 🤦‍♀️🤣 also you haven’t got to finish game , just take a photo and reset next time x

You're amazing. Everyday you give them is amazing. I can tell you love them beyond words and they love you too, which is why they want you all the time. So. This WILL pass, and pick your battles.
Don't reward bad behaviour with your time and engagement and massively massively praise all of them for even the teeny tiniest thing they get right. You'll feel like a right numpty and may have to force it through gritted teeth at the time but it gets easier.
Always always ask for help if you need it.
Let the house go a bit. Keep your sense of humour. Stay in touch with your friends. Xx

@booksandnooks I don't have any advice that hasn't been shared here already but I just wanted to chime in as a teacher. I work in a really rough area and you can just tell which parents really are trying their best because their kids are not horrors. Your kids do not sound like horrors. Since the pandemic began, I have been shocked by how all childrens' behaviour has nose-dived. Even the wee teachers' pets. I know it must be exhausting but please remember this is partly situational and it sounds like you are making all the right moves. Stick in there, you sound like a great mum with a lot on her plate.

Lots of good advice here. I'd add getting the little ones to bed as early as reasonably possible, so you can spend some time with the older two. I did this with mine, and it was their "special time". Likewise when the babies were napping, I would play with the older DC (even though I normally just wanted to go to sleep).

Firstly, th fact you're even asking this question means you're almost certainly a better parent than you think you are. And the fact they are not fighting and injuring each other makes me wonder if they are maybe closer to typical than you think.

As PPs have said, I think a parenting course would be really helpful. You need some ideas, a good boost of self belief and confidence, and then a cast iron plan. Think of it that you are "Supernannying" yourself perhaps. Your HV might be able to point you to a course, or try ringing school nurses (get their number from school reception). I really like the book "How to talk so kids will listen..." but you might want to start with something a bit more structured.

I think you're being massively hard on yourself. I also think your DH needs to step the fuck up a bit and help parent his kids. His focus shouldn't be on going out for a meal - which would never be a treat anyway with four kids under ten - but on working out strategies to help your children be the best they can be.

For example, I think you need to divide and conquer and I think you need to spend stress free time with the elder kids. DH should be taking the two younger ones off your hands on a Saturday morning, say, so you can go and do a bike ride or just go to the park, just the three of you.

I would accept that bed time is going to be chaotic and I would look for ways to turn that routine around. For example, bathing the younger two in the morning, or giving the elder ones tasks like reading a story to the littles.

TV - absolutely take the power cable upstairs, they'll soon get over that little bit of nonsense ( which I wouldn't really stress too much about, it's mischief not serial killing prep).

But I also think with 4 kids you need to adjust your expectations. My cousins are a family of 5 and they were pretty wild, but the eldest had to get involved with looking after the younger, they all had chores and things to do to make the family 'work' and while I (an only child) was always exhausted by the end of a visit, they had a lot of fun. Let them be a noisy wolf pack - just choose the places where they can do that carefully.

I was a mother's help for a while for a lady with kids, 10,8,6 & 4. She was at the end of her tether and they were feral. They were also perfectly bilingual and she wasn't...

Tbh, just hang in there is about all you can do unless you can divide and separate. You need some help for that tho.

Have a look at 123 Magic. I dont have time to explain it, but if you google you will find it. A great behaviour modification system 😃

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No pudding isn't a consequence though. Find natural consequences and leave them to it.

OP "rough" is where the parents are frequently shouting and swearing at the children, the children are regularly neglected and smell of cigarette smoke.

A noisy, lively, normal family is not quiet but not "rough". Don't be so hard on yourself

@booksandnooks

When I was their age I was down the park or playing round the block with friends, so I do feel for them. I probably spent 80% of my summer and springs out of doors. Whereas my children only get to go out when I am out and with babies in the house it can't be an all day every day event.

They aren't too bad all the time, I am being a little bit dramatic. But when its bad its really bad and I could run away. I'm sure everyone has had the feeling but it really is a horrible experience at the moment.
I feel like I am wasting their last years of childhood constantly fighting and bargaining with them.

When mines were little I used to fantasise about being wrongly incarcerated hopefully in solitary confinement. Imagine the quiet and being able to sleep for 23 hours a day!

OP,
You sound amazing.
Breast feeding a 4th is not easy.

Life is so busy and if you are not getting great sleep you only have so much energy.

You have very, very long days with their father working 60 hours.

You sound like a very kind mother.

Critically IMO you say they are kind to each other.

To me, that is one of the biggest achievements you can have as a parent, that your children are kind to each other.

I think you are expecting a lot being able to juggle 4 going out.

Focus on getting the eldest 2 to really be the big siblings helping Mum out, and perhaps think of special big children privileges that they could enjoy.

They might also help with entertaining the toddler too.

It is a really full on time that you are in the midst of.

Please be kind to yourself as you sound so loving towards them, which is the main thing.

4 here too op. Eldest is 8. Threats and following through is the way forward! Mine have their moments but in the whole are vquite well behaved. They squabble but for the most part play together. Youngest is 2. So 2. 4,6 and 8. The 2 eldest help out with the two youngest when I'm busy by playing with them. But I'm lucky that they enjoy this. 2 boys and 2 girls here. Eldest are boys. Youngest are girls.

They can ve very loud and messy though. So I spend a lot of time telling them to be quiet and picking stuff up but they help do a big tody before bed. They do their homework when told. It's just re informing.

Again if you threat and they ignore then you need to follow through then have a chat as to why this has happened. I appreciate I'm lucky and I don't have to do it very often. They also aren't Ryde to me very often but again if they are there is a consequence. We reinforce team worm though and regularly remind them we are a team and work together. Dh works 60+ hours too so same boat as you. We call him once a day when they don't have school. And they have a 'secret handshake that they do with him and a pro.ise to be as well behaved as possible. I do think you can have all the intentions of being a Mary Poppins mother but it's not the norm.

My house is never a show home it is cluttered but I guess that's life with kids

Also breastfeeding here too! It can be exhausting so I feel you!

Sending love x I think regression in the older two is totally understandable with the baby coming along and it will pass, but as others have said it's just all about boundaries, and being clear and consistent as well as giving choices-'stay in bed or lose X-it's your choice' x I'm just watching the three day nanny (guilty pleasure) who I think is fab! It's about a single mum with four children-worth a watch for sure! Series 3 episode 3 xxx

It’s not too late to change things. But you have to set boundaries and you have to stick to them. Don’t make empty threats, and don’t tolerate any back chat. I’m a fairly relaxed parent but one thing I’ve always been strict on is I don’t let my kids talk to me like crap. They are 16 & 13 and never ever speak rudely to me, and that’s because I’ve never tolerated it. If your kids are naughty or rude they need some consequences as trust me it will get a lot worse in the teenage years if you don’t make changes. Can you reach out to your health visitor or GP for some help, maybe some parenting courses. No shame in asking for help, none of us are perfect and fact you want to change things is great. Best of luck

Ours doesn't sneak out at night, he gets up super early. To stop this we take the remote to bed with us. Easier than taking out a fuse.x

Hope you’re having fun playing army men. The fact that you care about this so much shows they’re not rough and that you’re trying really hard. Your last update showed great insight. I think you’re probably right that it’s as a result of back to back pregnancies and newborns and the lack of focus this has placed on them. Kids are extremely resilient and I’m sure that with even 15 minutes of focused time just on them doing big children activities without the distraction of the babies you’ll see a bit improvement in their attitude and behaviour. Even when you’re exhausted just spending 15 minutes watching YouTube together and you showing an interest in their interests will pay off. Or go back to tucking them in and stories at bedtime if you don’t still do this. But at weekends, try and take an hour or so to get out the house with just the older ones. It’ll probably give you a rest, we go for walks and a hot chocolate and take uno along and they love it. You just sound overwhelmed by having 4 with 2 babies, it’s going to be hard but it’ll get easier. The age gaps just mean they have very different needs and it’s difficult to meet all of them so sometimes it’s divide and conquer but you’ve got this!

OP, I’m sorry I don’t have any magic advice but just wanted to say that I’m the youngest of 4 in pretty much the exact situation you describe (dad working all hours and hardly ever there and mum a SAHM) and it used to be a total madhouse growing up. We would definitely have been described as “rough” when out and about! Mum always used to say she’d never take us anywhere unless she absolutely had to 😂 But we’ve all turned out to be respectful and well behaved adults! I think when you have a large family it’s always going to be full of mischief and chaos but that’s part of the fun in the end! I’m not going to scare you with the antics of my eldest sister and brother but let’s just say sneaking out of bed is angelic in comparison 😂
Keep going OP, I think you’re being too hard on yourself and I’m sure your an amazing mummy!