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Original poster

The term "The Queen of England"

294 replies

DynamoKev · 13/04/2021 12:31

In view of recent events this term has been appearing again.

My theory is that it originates from the USA - does anyone else agree or have a different view about where it started/is from?

royalcentral.co.uk/features/insight/queen-elizabeth-ii-is-not-the-queen-of-england-is-it-so-hard-to-get-it-right-138067/

OP posts:
Yellownotblue · 14/04/2021 00:53

@Changechangychange

What drives me crazy is that lots of people here in Canada call her the Queen of England and have zero idea how a constitutional monarchy works

This! People used to say this to me all the time when I lived in Canada! Hellooo, she’s yours too, Canadians!

I’m Canadian and can confirm she is routinely referred to as the Queen of England, even on state news channels (CBC). I remember as a child being totally bemused by the idea that she was ‘our’ queen. For most Canadians, she is a complete stranger and certainly not perceived as the head of state.
JaneJeffer · 14/04/2021 00:54

Everyone would just assume you were speaking of Dr. Rory O’Neill, our official Queen
Ugh not my Queen. Can't stand the man.

RustyBear · 14/04/2021 01:07

As a postscript to @ohforarainyday 's post, it's interesting to note that out of 41 people proclaimed as ruler since the Norman Conquest, only 10 were the eldest son of the previous monarch, and two of those were never crowned (Edward V, one of the Princes in the Tower, and Edward VIII, who abdicated) One (Charles II) didn't succeed for 11 years after his father's death because of the Civil War. Two (Mary II and Elizabeth II)were the eldest daughter of the previous ruler, though Mary only succeeded because her father was deposed, and she wasn't the eldest child of James II, she had an elder brother who died. Infant death was often the cause of the eldest son not succeeding, and five more kings had older brothers who died young, while Richard II and George III were the grandson of the previous king (though even Richard wasn't the eldest son of his father)

Mittens030869 · 14/04/2021 01:26

This was true of Henry VIII as well. His older brother, Arthur, died in his teens.

Mittens030869 · 14/04/2021 01:31

That’s why traditionally people have spoken about reigning Monarchs needing to produce an ‘heir and a spare’. It happens a lot less now, though it could conceivably happen to Charles if his mother outlives him.

RustyBear · 14/04/2021 01:36

@Mittens030869

This was true of Henry VIII as well. His older brother, Arthur, died in his teens.
Yes, he's one of the five I mentioned who had older brothers who died young
Mittens030869 · 14/04/2021 01:42

Whoops, I didn’t read your post properly, apologies for that. That was very interesting to read, just how few first-born children have actually acceded to the throne.

OwlBeThere · 14/04/2021 02:17

@MumUndone
Wtf are we meant to call her then?
Personally, I go with Liz.

TheSandman · 14/04/2021 02:40

So what happens if Scotland gains independence? Would they become a republic, or would they keep the Queen?

I think the current plan is to put it to the people. I suspect we in Scotland are going to be having a lot of referendums in the near future once we've left the UK.

Personally I would like to be the citizen of a republic rather than the Subject of a hereditary monarchy. Though if - as it has been mooted - there was a King or Queen of Scots elected by the people with no hereditary entanglements I could live with that. Just.

SenecaFallsRedux · 14/04/2021 02:49

One (Charles II)

Charles's mother, Henrietta Maria, gave birth to a son before she had Charles. The baby was named Charles James and called Duke of Cornwall, but he died at birth or shortly thereafter.

I think that if Scotland becomes independent, it will eventually become a republic.

SenecaFallsRedux · 14/04/2021 02:53

I meant to quote a longer sentence from RustyBear. I was following up on Rusty's post about first born sons.

MagentaGiraffe · 14/04/2021 03:01

[quote DynamoKev]In view of recent events this term has been appearing again.

My theory is that it originates from the USA - does anyone else agree or have a different view about where it started/is from?

royalcentral.co.uk/features/insight/queen-elizabeth-ii-is-not-the-queen-of-england-is-it-so-hard-to-get-it-right-138067/[/quote]
Honestly, if this is all you have to get wound up about in life, be thankful.

Baws · 14/04/2021 07:05

As previous poster have said, it’s the one time I don’t get annoyed about people thinking England is the only country in the U.K. England can keep the overprivileged bunch, I have 0 interest.

Teawaster · 14/04/2021 10:20

She is often referred to the Queen of England in Ireland too, particularly those who are quite nationalistic in attitude as people are not keen to think of her as ruling over any part of the island of Ireland

PrelovedWithValue · 14/04/2021 11:27

You would understand if you were Scottish and she is referred to as the Queen of England

And yet more than one Scot on here couldn't give a toss about it.

Mittens030869 · 14/04/2021 11:41

@Teawaster

But they could instead refer to her as the ‘Queen of Great Britain’ if that’s the reason why they feel like that. (I can understand why they would.)

Teawaster · 14/04/2021 11:48

Suppose they could but I think it's easier for them to think of her as belonging solely to England , as there is some sympathy for the Scottish and Welsh , the English being mainly the 'villains '. Not saying I think that should be the case , but I think that's the perception

Rukaya · 14/04/2021 11:58

She is often referred to the Queen of England in Ireland too, particularly those who are quite nationalistic in attitude as people are not keen to think of her as ruling over any part of the island of Ireland

Hmm
Gwenhwyfar · 14/04/2021 22:40

[quote OwlBeThere]@MumUndone
Wtf are we meant to call her then?
Personally, I go with Liz.[/quote]
Mrs Windsor is more respectful :)

JaneJeffer · 14/04/2021 22:46

An English woman I worked with used to call her Brenda. I didn't have a clue who she was on about at first. (I think it was a Private Eye joke?)

DdraigGoch · 14/04/2021 23:46

@StillCoughingandLaughing

But she IS the Queen of England. Granted, not just England, but that doesn’t stop her being Queen of England.
No, her title is Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The last Queen of England was Queen Anne who was simultaneously Queen of Scotland and Queen of Ireland. Upon the Acts of Union 1707, she became Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and also Queen of Ireland.

It's like saying that Joe Biden is President of Virginia. He's not, he's President of the United States of America, which just happens to include Virginia.

DdraigGoch · 14/04/2021 23:57

@littlepattilou

It IS annoying I must admit. she is the Queen of the United Kingdom, not ENGLAND, and yeah it is Americans who I usually hear saying it. I am not BLAMING them for anything. Just saying that it's usually them I hear saying it.

Then again, some of them do make mini gaffes like this.

I saw a Hollywood star being interviewed a few years ago, after the USA had been eliminated from the (football) World Cup the night before, and the presenter reminded him of this. He said, 'yeah the United Kingdom was booted first though, 2 days before the USA.' (It was ENGLAND who were eliminated, but this guy thought the United Kingdom, and England were one and the same...) Wink

So yeah, it's not uncommon for Americans to get it wrong.

To be fair though, on the basis that the other three nations were probably also not in the competition by this point, he wouldn't be entirely incorrect to say that the UK was now out.
Theloftmonster · 15/04/2021 00:02

I thought her correct title in England was 'The Queen'. Queen Elizabeth was the title the Queen Mother used. However as an act of friendship from England to Scotland and Wales, how about we keep the Queen as Queen of England and then you can have Charles of Scotland and in due course William of Wales, sounds fair Grin

Gwenhwyfar · 15/04/2021 00:07

@Theloftmonster

I thought her correct title in England was 'The Queen'. Queen Elizabeth was the title the Queen Mother used. However as an act of friendship from England to Scotland and Wales, how about we keep the Queen as Queen of England and then you can have Charles of Scotland and in due course William of Wales, sounds fair Grin
You can keep them all. It's the English Royal Family after all, despite their obsession with hunting in Scotland.
SenecaFallsRedux · 15/04/2021 01:27

The last Queen of England was Queen Anne who was simultaneously Queen of Scotland and Queen of Ireland. Upon the Acts of Union 1707, she became Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and also Queen of Ireland.

Although they did throw the word "United" around here and there before it was official,
with the passage of the Acts of Union in 1707, she was Queen of Great Britain and separately Queen of Ireland. In 1801, with the Act of Union with Ireland, the title was King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. This is when the United Kingdom was officially created. Then with the recognition of the Irish Free State (usually dated as 1922) the title became King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Also in 1801, they stopped calling themselves Kings or Queens of France.

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