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The term "The Queen of England"

294 replies

DynamoKev · 13/04/2021 12:31

In view of recent events this term has been appearing again.

My theory is that it originates from the USA - does anyone else agree or have a different view about where it started/is from?

royalcentral.co.uk/features/insight/queen-elizabeth-ii-is-not-the-queen-of-england-is-it-so-hard-to-get-it-right-138067/

OP posts:
TheHamsterCatcher · 15/04/2021 13:03

Er what? If Charles outlives the Queen, Charles becomes King. If Charles died first, William would be King

Sorry, got myself muddled... I meant if the Queen outlives Charles!

Peregrina · 15/04/2021 13:14

No, it would just pass to William. Now if the Queen and Prince Charles had both died before 1960 when Andrew was born, it would have passed to Princess Anne. She has now been bumped way down the list.

SenecaFallsRedux · 15/04/2021 13:59

And if both Charles and William predeceased the Queen, George would be king. And if that happened while he is a minor, he would need a regent, which under present rules, is the person over the age of 18 who is closest in line to the throne. That person would be Harry.

As for accents, it's just as valid, especially for someone from another country, to talk about a "British accent" or an "American accent" as an umbrella term. I think most Americans recognize that there are different accents in the UK, but most of us can't differentiate among them all that well. So we need an umbrella term. I think the same is true for most British people and American accents. I, as an American, can differentiate many "American accents" that people from other English speaking countries probably can't. So they need an umbrella term.

Plus it's likely that when an American uses "British" it signals that they probably do understand the basic make-up of the UK. A couple of years ago, I overheard a woman speaking in a "British accent" that some people would say was an "English accent" and when I struck up a conversation, I discovered she was Scottish. Very posh Scottish as it happened because she was speaking in an RP accent.

"British English" and "American English" are linguistic terms of art. Using similar descriptors for accents is closely related to that.

RickiTarr · 15/04/2021 14:45

And if both Charles and William predeceased the Queen, George would be king. And if that happened while he is a minor, he would need a regent, which under present rules, is the person over the age of 18 who is closest in line to the throne. That person would be Harry.

I think arrangements have been made for it to be Kate, should anything so horrible come to pass.

RickiTarr · 15/04/2021 14:49

As for accents, it's just as valid, especially for someone from another country, to talk about a "British accent" or an "American accent" as an umbrella term. I think most Americans recognize that there are different accents in the UK, but most of us can't differentiate among them all that well. So we need an umbrella term. I think the same is true for most British people and American accents. I, as an American, can differentiate many "American accents" that people from other English speaking countries probably can't. So they need an umbrella term.

Yes.

I can manage to identify an NYC (slash New Jersey accent, a Southern States accent in a generic sort of way and I’ve got some muddled ideas about Bostonian, mid-Atlantic accents and Katharine Hepburn. Other than that it’s all just “American accent”. Grin

RickiTarr · 15/04/2021 14:56

I can’t find a link @SenecaFallsRedux but I do remember that one of the more somber (you’d say “sober” I think Smile) immediate reactions to the so called “Megxit” was some discussion of how Harry could now never be allowed to be regent for George in case of disaster, and that Kate was considered by insiders to be up to the job, possibly with a co-regent such as Anne or Edward.

Harry is now completely beyond the pale. They’re humouring to his face but I’m quite sure they’re hurriedly rewriting anything. I’m quite sure Kate herself would be incredibly unhappy about even the slenderest prospect of Harry being any sort of guardian or guide to any of her children.

SenecaFallsRedux · 15/04/2021 15:59

There may have been discussions, but as far as I know, the applicable Regency Act (1937) has not been amended or superseded. It does require the regent to be domiciled in the UK. If Harry is disqualified, the person next in line under the Act is Andrew and after him, his daughters. So there would have to be another Act for it to be Kate.

It was amended in 1953 to allow Prince Philip to be regent, but once all of his children reached the age of 18, it no longer had effect.

Also, I misspoke above. It's the person over the age of 21 closest in line. 18 is the age of majority for the monarch.

RickiTarr · 15/04/2021 16:07

@SenecaFallsRedux

There may have been discussions, but as far as I know, the applicable Regency Act (1937) has not been amended or superseded. It does require the regent to be domiciled in the UK. If Harry is disqualified, the person next in line under the Act is Andrew and after him, his daughters. So there would have to be another Act for it to be Kate.

It was amended in 1953 to allow Prince Philip to be regent, but once all of his children reached the age of 18, it no longer had effect.

Also, I misspoke above. It's the person over the age of 21 closest in line. 18 is the age of majority for the monarch.

Maybe they have something in draft?

I was wondering generally earlier (I can’t remember what set me off!) whether there is a list of matters arising that were being held in abeyance while PP was unwell, so as not to stress him too much.

ragged · 15/04/2021 16:28

This thread is niggling at me.

We had a child's story book which I reckon dated from 1980s - or earlier. I gave it away and can't find a copy online, alas.

Story was about 2 toy rabbits (blue & red) who go on a walk in the countryside looking for real live rabbits.

They bump into various things & creatures. Like a cow. And each time declare, "If that's a real live rabbit, then I'm the Queen of England!" to their own great amusement.

They were definitely wandering around English countryside. It was a very English story book for English children.

So I'm not convinced on the "It's a deplorable ignorant American phrase" claim.

Peregrina · 15/04/2021 18:41

But Prince Philip was already of Royal Blood - admittedly Danish by way of Greece. I am not sure that they would exactly want Kate to be a Regent. Write Andrew and Harry out, and make it Eugenie? Although in the unlikely event of it all happening, I think Anne would make the best Co-Regent. I wonder how she would get on with Kate though?

TheSandman · 15/04/2021 20:08

"Royal Blood"????

Seriously?

Is this still a concept worth discussing in the 21st century?

Youseethethingis · 15/04/2021 20:21

“Royal blood” = descended from kings and queens. It’s an accurate summary of Prince Philips lineage 🤷‍♀️

gottakeeponmovin · 15/04/2021 20:22

My cousin who lives in a European Country and is in his 50s discovered in a conversation with me the other day that England and Great Britain are not the same thing. A lot of people think England is GB particularly Americans

gottakeeponmovin · 15/04/2021 20:23

Everyone knows about it
From the Queen of England to the Hounds of Hell

White Stripes

RickiTarr · 15/04/2021 20:29

@Youseethethingis

“Royal blood” = descended from kings and queens. It’s an accurate summary of Prince Philips lineage 🤷‍♀️
So this Royal Blood stuff is such a magical substance that Kate shouldn’t get to be a a co-regent to her own son - should he tragically lose his father before he turns 18 - because she doesn’t have it?
StillCoughingandLaughing · 15/04/2021 21:37

@Peregrina

But Prince Philip was already of Royal Blood - admittedly Danish by way of Greece. I am not sure that they would exactly want Kate to be a Regent. Write Andrew and Harry out, and make it Eugenie? Although in the unlikely event of it all happening, I think Anne would make the best Co-Regent. I wonder how she would get on with Kate though?
A royal consort can act as a Counsellor of State in the monarch’s absence, as The Queen Mother - also not of royal blood - did more than once. Regent is admittedly a step up, but it doesn’t seem beyond the realms of possibility. The only issue I can see is that, if Charles outlived William, Kate would never be a royal consort - she would ‘just’ be the King’s mother.
CasperGutman · 15/04/2021 21:54

When I lived in England, pretty much everyone just referred to "the Queen". I'm pretty sure I hear people refer to "the Queen of England" more now I live in another part of the UK, possibly in some cases because they are republicans or nationalists .and want to "other" the monarchy and set their country apart from it.

Peregrina · 15/04/2021 22:12

The only issue I can see is that, if Charles outlived William, Kate would never be a royal consort - she would ‘just’ be the King’s mother.

If William died before Charles, which could happen, I am not sure what Kate would be. Just the Duchess of Cambridge still.

In the rarified world of royalty and courtiers, the QM was previously Lady Elizabeth, like Lady Diana, both technically commoners, but not the same class of commoner as you and me or Kate Middleton was.

Youseethethingis · 15/04/2021 22:19

So this Royal Blood stuff is such a magical substance that Kate shouldn’t get to be a a co-regent to her own son - should he tragically lose his father before he turns 18 - because she doesn’t have it?
The same magical substance that will land the crown on Charles head instead of Andrews or yours or mine. They have rules/protocols, this isn’t a new thing. Not sure why anyone is surprised.

TheSandman · 15/04/2021 22:29

@Youseethethingis

“Royal blood” = descended from kings and queens. It’s an accurate summary of Prince Philips lineage 🤷‍♀️
...counting the posts till 'Divine Right' crops up as a "legitimate argument"...
StoneofDestiny · 15/04/2021 22:46

royal blood 😂😂

I wonder where the blood bank of royal blood is - loads of blue blood stacked up ready for them all 😂😂

StoneofDestiny · 15/04/2021 22:49

I'm Scottish and I don't want to keep the Royal Family. Fortunately I might get a say, should we get independence

Amen to that

RickiTarr · 15/04/2021 22:50

@Youseethethingis

So this Royal Blood stuff is such a magical substance that Kate shouldn’t get to be a a co-regent to her own son - should he tragically lose his father before he turns 18 - because she doesn’t have it? The same magical substance that will land the crown on Charles head instead of Andrews or yours or mine. They have rules/protocols, this isn’t a new thing. Not sure why anyone is surprised.
Well the whole thing is nonsense, but it’s a further step beyond to say that Kate couldn’t be regent for George because her blood isn’t blue.
ohforarainyday · 15/04/2021 22:53

...counting the posts till 'Divine Right' crops up as a "legitimate argument"...

Henry Bolingbroke would like to have a word. Grin

StoneofDestiny · 15/04/2021 22:55

The Ex Queen would be a great name for her..

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