To think calling in sick for no sleep is a good enough reason?

[Rachelinaa]

I work in an office that's been open through most of lockdown due to admin we do being essential.
Recently one of my workmates has been calling in sick a lot because he hasn't been sleeping well as he's got a baby at home that won't sleep. I was shocked to hear other people at work saying they thought it was a ridiculous reason not to come to work and we've all had to come to work tired. But I thought they'd be able to see the difference between being tired and not sleeping at all. His baby has colic and the mum also works.
I've called in sick before for being too tired when my baby was a newborn and didn't sleep. I wondered what everyone else's thoughts on this was? I personally don't want someone driving to work if they're too tired to focus and I can't think that the boss would want someone in more likely to make mistakes.

Exactly this, Geronimo..I tend to sleep mornings only therefore the job I do now is a late shift.. start afternoon, end 10pm... you parent yourself.

It's a shame he can't use flexitime or work from home. If he's not safe to drive and he has to drive, then that should come first.

My last comment was directed at @PattyPan not @ThrowingAShellstrop - sorry!

@Cipot

It's a shame he can't use flexitime or work from home. If he's not safe to drive and he has to drive, then that should come first.

But surely he could come in later, why does he need to take a whole day off work?

I don't know what the law on this is, but it's not advisable to drive/operate machinery/make important decisions on too little sleep so depending on the profession common sense is required. For instance I wouldn't be too keen on a heart surgeon working on me after no sleep! We

It really does depend on what your role is. If you are working in a job where you need to be alert and attentive in order to ensure yours or another's safety then I'd say it's definitely a good reason.
Sleep deprivation is real, and can be dangerous under some circumstances. If you are not fit to do your role, be that through physical or mental illness, then you should not be in work.

I've done this a couple of times. Since the disturbed nights (as in awake 3-6am every night for weeks on end) were caused by work stress, I felt fine about doing it and my manager agreed too!

If you need time to recover, book time off.

Geronimo - it doesn't always work that DC then have a lie in so that you can catch up with your sleep.

I’d have never been in work if I’d done this! He can’t legitimately take paid sick leave, he’s not sick. Possibly unpaid carers or parental leave. With 2 parents I’d expect them to sort it so that they both have at least 5 hours or 6 hours and catch up at weekends

Being tired is not a reason to phone in sick.

YABU

Can you imagine if workplace absence/sickness policies were amended to include tiredness!?

I hope airline pilots and surgeons call in sick when they have no sleep!

@Penistoe

I hope airline pilots and surgeons call in sick when they have no sleep!

I hope they have a less chaotic approach to parenting and have the good sense to plan a bit better!

I’ve read the OP’s updates and although I hugely sympathize with her colleague, I think he and his wife need to make more use of the shared parental leave that they’re entitled to in the UK. The OP refers to the baby as “newborn” so I’m guessing just a few months old, possibly weeks old.

The Op confirmed that they’re in the UK, not the US where it’s lousy and it sounds as if they both went back to work soon after the birth, perhaps not realizing how exhausting it would be. Their decision was probably financially-driven, but it’s not working out so they need to reassess.

It’s quite well publicised that doctors and other HCP have to work long hours, shifts and normal day shifts plus on call over night... you have to adapt, sleep when you can and plan around it. If you can’t sleep because of shift working, pain, mental health disorders it’s different but if you know your child is a bad sleeper and there are 2 of you it’s up to you to sort it out, usually means one partner going to bed very early and then switching over early hours.

I think I’d judge if it was regularly! I went back super quick after MAT leave for financial reasons. Me and OH would do shifts. I’d be exhausted, so falling asleep at 7pm was easy and I’d do any wakes ups from 1am ish. Even on the the worst days where I only got an hours sleep through my shift I’d still be able to work the next day. OH was a night owl and happily went to be late sleeping 1am - 7:45 ish. It was tiring but definitely doable.

The wife won’t be working 8-6 5 days a week in the NHS as that contravenes the working time directive. Also 2 absences in a 6 month period triggers a sickness review. I very much doubt she’s taking regular sick days for being tired or she’d be facing a disciplinary

@GeronimoHate

Penistoe
I hope airline pilots and surgeons call in sick when they have no sleep!

I hope they have a less chaotic approach to parenting and have the good sense to plan a bit better!

A non-sleeping baby/toddler does not indicate a chaotic or unplanned approach to parenting! What a shitty comment.

[quote ElphabaTheGreen]@GeronimoHate

Penistoe
I hope airline pilots and surgeons call in sick when they have no sleep!

I hope they have a less chaotic approach to parenting and have the good sense to plan a bit better!

A non-sleeping baby/toddler does not indicate a chaotic or unplanned approach to parenting! What a shitty comment.[/quote]
That is not what I meant - your child may not sleep but you should organise your time so you can sleep and if there are two parents working full time then you need to plan to take it in shifts or someone needs to take leave - the non sleeping baby is not a surprise to someone who regularly takes sick days due to tiredness - leaving whether you sleep or not to chance is not good enough especially if people's lives are relying on your alertness. I think it's shitty that you think people should forget their professional responsibilities because they can't get their shit together and plan a bit of sleep - I suspect they would not a the mental capacity to be a pilot or a surgeon if that were the case.

Yanbu but people will say you are as we have an extremely martyred approach to work in this country.

Now and again it’s not unreasonable. Eg I took a day off sick when I’d had 3 hours sleep and was 8 months pregnant and was weeping with tiredness on the way into the office. No need to be an utter martyr. Insomnia can be a reason to take time off, being unable to work because you are so tired can be legit. Not all the time, but everyone hits the wall sometimes.

The problem is, unless you allowed everyone to phone in sick due to lack of sleep, regardless of the reason, then you would be favouring people with children over those that don’t. Or to put it another way, discriminating over those without children.

There are specific laws to allow parents time off for maternity/paternity but there aren’t laws to allow parents time off if they are tired.

I would never dream of ringing in sick because I was tired.

I bet many people do, but give a different reason

It's tricky, for example ... my sister runs her own small business. Should she have to pay an employee out of her own pocket because they've had a baby and the baby won't sleep. I'd just suggest that your colleague tells a white lie so as not to alienate people, ie say that he's sick rather than his child won't sleep. When my daughter was young I'd always go into work if I was ill (unless I was stuck on the loo) and save my sick days for when my daughter was unwell. However, I never told them it was for her. Unfortunately you have to play the game!